Topic: Your Thought & Reaction from SAG with video downloads

[*Froggy*]

Hello..well looks like it wasn't such a great night for BBM after all... :-\

Let's have a thread where we can comment on last night's awards!

and let's start with a video of Jake and Heath presenting BBM!

http://www.iheartjake.com/media.htm

Scroll down to the end...you have 3 videos with Jake (NOM is the one presenting BBM)

http://iheartjake.suddenlaunch.com/index.cgi?board=gyllenhaalics&action=display&num=1138596295

Some screen caps at http://www.ennisjack.com/index.php?topic=983.msg10039#msg10039

[Sitaram]

I was browsing through that link, noticing all the shots of Jake's face.  The beauty of his face is astounding.  I was struck from the very beginning by that beauty, which somehow exceeds the beauty of many women.

The writings of Plato and other ancient philosophers seem to suggest that it was understandable for two males to love one another, and that somehow, that understanding was based on a patriarchical notion of the natural nobility and superiority and virtue of the male nature, with regard to military and political virtues of courage and leadership. 

[tpe]

I find it interesting that the voting majority that make up the SAG would be so coy as NOT to award the  great young actors of BBM WHO TOOK ON ROLES THAT MOST OF THEM WOULD NOT HAVE THE BALLS OR COURAGE TO PLAY DUE TO CONCERNS ABOUT 'RUINING' THEIR ACTING CAREERS.

It hints at the fact that the actors guild has a long way to go...  This is indeed the last frontier as far as SAG is concerned.

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.  To acknowledge excellence for portrayal of gays/bisexual characters WHO ARE ORDINARY FOLK may have proven too uncomfortable for the pyche of most SAG members.

[Sitaram]

Excellent point! It takes courage to be openly gay in the face of predjudice.  It takes courage to portray dramatically the character of someone openly gay.

In college, I was struck one day by my own cowardice regarding societies opinion, when a young man related that he escaped conscription (draft) by declaring himself homosexual.

[tpe]

Excellent point! It takes courage to be openly gay in the face of predjudice.  It takes courage to portray dramatically the character of someone openly gay.

In college, I was struck one day by my own cowardice regarding societies opinion, when a young man related that he escaped conscription (draft) by declaring himself homosexual.

Thanks Sitaram! 

I was extremely disappointed with the SAG.  If there is a frontier, it will be the Guild itself.

[hidesert]

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.

One reviewer made an interesting point that Hoffman just imitated Truman Capote.  It was a brilliant imitation and the book "In Cold Blood" created a whole new genre of writing in the US.  But Hoffman could capture Truman Capote by watching old TV interviews of the author - Capote was on many TV talk shows so there must be hours of tape available.

Heath Ledger created a whole new character from an original piece of literature.  And if any Academy voters have read BBM the short story they will see that Ledger also did a brilliant job translating the character from literature to the screen.

[Sitaram]

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.

One reviewer made an interesting point that Hoffman just imitated Truman Capote.  It was a brilliant imitation and the book "In Cold Blood" created a who new genre of writing in the US.  But Hoffman could capture Truman Capote by watching old TV interviews of the author - Capote was on many TV talk shows so there must be hours of tape available.

Heath Ledger created a whole new character from an original piece of literature.  And if any Academy voters have read BBM the short story they will see that Ledger also did a brilliant job translating the character from literature to the screen.

The tantalizing question that occurs to me is, "Could Heath Ledger turn around and do Capote with equal brilliance."

Think of a Robin Williams, who can so brilliantly shift back and forth between very diverse characters.

Which actor or actress comes to your mind as the absolute master of diversity?

If Heath Ledger cannot pass such a test, then perhaps it is brilliance in casting to find someone who is an Ennis by nature.

Just my morning speculations over coffee.

[BBM Obsessed]

I totally agree with the comment of Seymour Hoffman imitating Truman Capote and Heath Ledger creating an entire characterization of a fictional character.  I said exactly that when Hoffman won his first "Best Actor" award.  Don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Hoffman's, and I believe both men did extraordinarily well, but Heath had the greater challenge and pulled it off superbly.  I'm still hopeful for his Oscar win!

[Toadily]

I think Heath was a little drunk myself.  Not admirable but not horrible.

[francis.shim]

I think Heath was a little drunk myself.  Not admirable but not horrible.

It is going to be hard to keep my toes crossed until March for the Oscars.  I hope the boys can do some damage control before the nominations... or it may be too late anyway.

Just pray.

Peace,
Frank

[*Froggy*]

Which actor or actress comes to your mind as the absolute master of diversity?

Johnny Depp!!.

[jasonx]

To bad they didn't win any awards, but it's not the end of the world!

The Oscars are coming soon. I think they will get a lot of nominations, but not alot of oscars. It's nice to get recognised and being awarded for such a great film/acting... but even in this century ppl are still very narow minded so I don't expect to much of it.

ok back to topic lol

I just wanted to say someting about that "Heath and his hand on his hip" thingy where some ppl in the "live thread" had some troubles with.

Maybe I'm a little bit behind with this discussion (since some ppl already said he probably was very nervous etc.) but i just wanted to say what I thought about it. I just want to clear my hart (or something lol).

When I watched the clip the first time I also noticed that hand on his hip, I thought: "put that hand down lol" and nothing more... not like some off you who where like "It's a fag imitation" and other drama things like "What a disappointment".

I watched it again and saw Heath was VERY nervous. I also noticed that in all other interviews, he just couldn't sit still and he looks down alot. I think he was laughing his nerves away (how do you say that lol)... I have the same thing when I have to stand before a big crowd and speak.. I get really nervous and begin to laugh and make silly jokes because I feel really uncomfortable as ppl stare at me. I think he didn't even noticed that his hand was there until jake begins to speak and he puts his hands behind his back.... omg what are we even talking about lol

Furthermore... who came to the stupid idea to let the main characters present their own film in that kind of way.. that speech should be held by somebody else or the speech should have been rewritten. It's like they are talking about somebody else while they really talk about therself (well at least their characters).. that just looked really dumb. Maybe they (SAG or whoever) thought that would be funny or something 
I think Heath and Jake also found it a bit stupid and as a part of that they began to laugh of how dumb the speech actually was.

Pfew.. well that are my 2 cents 

 I still Love BBM no mather how much awards the film and actors get.

ps: sorry for my bad english

[ranchgal]

Not to take away anything from BBM, (it is my favorite movie/cast out there) but we have to realize here that the quality of work represented in these awards is extremely high.

there are lots of actors repeatedly nominated for major awards that never win for years.
This is the very first notable film for all of these stars, and against formerly nominated and bigger stars than they are now, the competition is fierce.
I don't care how you view it----NOT every one of the voters have seen all the movies or performances, YES they are supposed to--but that doesn't mean they do.
They also let buzz, and politics enter into their mindset, just like any election---sometimes what you hear or see the most of, makes a difference when you mark your ballot.

Just being nominated for these catagories is an astounding feat for all this young cast---it is a true honor and whether they actually win or not is not the point---the point is THEY all have been recognized, both by fans, critics, and peers---that says volumns in todays movie world.
None of their past work has really created much buzz but based on this award season--they will be household names for the rest of their lives.   You all have to keep in mind the BIG picture here.

I don't think Heath or Jake or Michelle will make academy winners THIS year---but the future is brighter than the sun for all of them.   
And no one is taking anything away from their perfomances, win or lose, They have made everyone sit up and take notice of the work and talent,  and it won't matter to me if they win or not, cause I will be a fan and go see their work anyway.

[ethan]

If this can make you feel better.......

I was reading New York Times and there was no single word about SAG, not even in the Arts section. 

Oscar is coming tomorrow and let's hope the best. But of course, please keep talking about your thought and reaction from SAG. It is a place for us to share.

[Rod]

I find it interesting that the voting majority that make up the SAG would be so coy as NOT to award the  great young actors of BBM WHO TOOK ON ROLES THAT MOST OF THEM WOULD NOT HAVE THE BALLS OR COURAGE TO PLAY DUE TO CONCERNS ABOUT 'RUINING' THEIR ACTING CAREERS.

It hints at the fact that the actors guild has a long way to go...  This is indeed the last frontier as far as SAG is concerned.

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.  To acknowledge excellence for portrayal of gays/bisexual characters WHO ARE ORDINARY FOLK may have proven too uncomfortable for the pyche of most SAG members.

[*Froggy*]

If this can make you feel better.......

I was reading New York Times and there was no single word about SAG, not even in the Arts section. 

Oscar is coming tomorrow and let's hope the best. But of course, please keep talking about your thought and reaction from SAG. It is a place for us to share.

Have got my fingers , my legs and my toes crossed (and yes I can cross my toes...that's 10 years of ballet to you!)

[ethan]

Have got my fingers , my legs and my toes crossed (and yes I can cross my toes...that's 10 years of ballet to you!)

LOL. I think I will let you do the honor of crossing toes. Hope this will garner one or two more nominations and I am so looking forward to adding more little gold men on the banner.

[*Froggy*]

Have got my fingers , my legs and my toes crossed (and yes I can cross my toes...that's 10 years of ballet to you!)

LOL. I think I will let you do the honor of crossing toes. Hope this will garner one or two more nominations and I am so looking forward to adding more little gold men on the banner.

I cant wait to see Chameau's picture up there too!!! Few hours to go!!!

[JerBear418720]

OK, I'd like to revisit the presentation of BBM at the SAGS in the clear light of day.

I think that when BBM was created, everybody concerned thought that what they were making was a modest indy film based upon a wonderful piece of writing.  NOBODY expected that it would evolve into the entertainment and sociological phenomenon that it has become.  We now have a situation where some very young (albeit wonderfully talented) actors find themselves in the position of having to be spokespersons for something that is no longer a movie, but a force - and they have to do it again, and again, and again in all kinds of situations where the harsh light of public scrutiny is shined right on them.  That is a LOT to pile on the shoulders of people who lack the life experience to be asked to consistently uphold high standards for this enormous responsibility.

I'm going to dismiss the presentation of BBM at the SAGS as an anomaly. and I hope that you will, too.  Heath Ledger clearly is very uncomfortable under the spotlight, and that can be an agonizing thing to have to endure.  He deserves our sympathy and support - he's an actor and a human being, not some paragon of perfection.  There are people who function on a very high level in work or social situations that are highly structured, but they painfully crumble and retreat inwardly when the public expectation is more of a "free-fall" type of thing.  Heath may very well be one of them.  IF that is true, I would hope that those involved with BBM will get him a PR consultant and/or mental health specialist to HELP this man.

Let's keep our eyes on the ball.  Despite any human failings or quirks (and who doesn't have them?), Heath gave us the wonderful gift of one of the great performances in movie history.  That will remain true regardless of the outcome of ANY awards ceremony.

Damn, I'd REALLY like to see him shine luminously at the Academy Awards!  I think that for Heath the man, that would be the biggest victory of all.

JerBear

P.S.  I know that many forum members are very young people.  I apologize if any of this sounded patronizing to you.  Yeah, some of us get older and acquire a degree of wisdom, but some of us just get OLDER - LOL!

P.P.S.  If you read this before, sorry, but I put it in the wrong place!
 
 
 

[Kindred]

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.

One reviewer made an interesting point that Hoffman just imitated Truman Capote.  It was a brilliant imitation and the book "In Cold Blood" created a who new genre of writing in the US.  But Hoffman could capture Truman Capote by watching old TV interviews of the author - Capote was on many TV talk shows so there must be hours of tape available.

Heath Ledger created a whole new character from an original piece of literature.  And if any Academy voters have read BBM the short story they will see that Ledger also did a brilliant job translating the character from literature to the screen.

Just to throw my 2 cents in:

Judging art can be impossibly difficult.  For example, how can you judge a still life painting against an abstract?  They are both artistic creations using the same medium, but of different subject matter.  In these cases, creativity/originality can not be the only criterion but technical merit must also be considered.  My point is simply that you can not say that Heath Ledgers performance was superior simply because he created a character from a short story versus an "imitation" of Capote. 

I haven't seen Capote and so I can not judge the performance.  IMO, Ledger's performance was outstanding, but my opinion is probably also biased.

[tpe]

To award Hoffman for playing a gay writer does not say that much.

One reviewer made an interesting point that Hoffman just imitated Truman Capote.  It was a brilliant imitation and the book "In Cold Blood" created a who new genre of writing in the US.  But Hoffman could capture Truman Capote by watching old TV interviews of the author - Capote was on many TV talk shows so there must be hours of tape available.

Heath Ledger created a whole new character from an original piece of literature.  And if any Academy voters have read BBM the short story they will see that Ledger also did a brilliant job translating the character from literature to the screen.

Just to throw my 2 cents in:

Judging art can be impossibly difficult.  For example, how can you judge a still life painting against an abstract?  They are both artistic creations using the same medium, but of different subject matter.  In these cases, creativity/originality can not be the only criterion but technical merit must also be considered.  My point is simply that you can not say that Heath Ledgers performance was superior simply because he created a character from a short story versus an "imitation" of Capote. 

I haven't seen Capote and so I can not judge the performance.  IMO, Ledger's performance was outstanding, but my opinion is probably also biased.

Thanks Kindred for the thoughts.  Art is indeed subjective.  But there are certain subjective values that an artist can gravitate to, depending on his or her temperament and aesthetic viewpoint.

For me, Ledger's performance is superior to Hoffman's because it shows more restraint and economy. This is because I value understatement over baroque profusion.  This is not to say that mannerism and the baroque are any less than classical restraint via some absolute measure.  It depends on one's aesthetic vision. 

The same hold true for difficulty/originality. Virgil is a much more polished Poet than Homer.  Homer is much more visceral, original, and monumental.  Two hunderd years ago, Virgil was supreme.  Later it was Homer.

In terms of originality, I would say Ledger has the upper hand.  By nature of originality, one can argue that his role was more difficult.  One can extend this to claim a more refined level of artistry, by virtue of elegance and restraint.

I would even daresay that great 20th century cinema had more often than not sided with restraint and understatement. It is in the nature of the times that we value, say, the austerity of 'Schindler's List' above the technical virtuosity of 'King Kong'.  Judging by this, I would say Ledger's acting is superior.

[hidesert]

The tantalizing question that occurs to me is, "Could Heath Ledger turn around and do Capote with equal brilliance."

Think of a Robin Williams, who can so brilliantly shift back and forth between very diverse characters.

Which actor or actress comes to your mind as the absolute master of diversity?

If Heath Ledger cannot pass such a test, then perhaps it is brilliance in casting to find someone who is an Ennis by nature.

Just my morning speculations over coffee.

No, I don't think Ledger could do Capote.  It's not that Ledger isn't a good actor it's that doing Truman Capote involves more that an effeminate voice and effeminate gestures.  Physical appearance is a big part of imitating Capote and Ledger doesn't fit the bill.   Ledger is too young and too tall.  Capote was a short fat man and Philip Seymour Hoffman looks like Capote even without a great makeup job.  It's very hard to imitate someone if they lived in recent times because viewers have memories of the person for comparison.   

They must have had a problem casting an actor as Johnny Cash but Joaquin Phoenix was a close enough physical match and it worked.  Robin Williams is very good, but again doing voices or gestures is different than having us suspend our memories and accept that a particular actor is the real historical figure.

I don't know how many members of SAG both saw the BBM movie and read the short story - I'm betting it is a very very small number.  If you read the short story and then see Ledger's performance, it's easy to see the brilliance of it. 

 

[francis.shim]

If this can make you feel better.......

I was reading New York Times and there was no single word about SAG, not even in the Arts section. 

Oscar is coming tomorrow and let's hope the best. But of course, please keep talking about your thought and reaction from SAG. It is a place for us to share.

Have got my fingers , my legs and my toes crossed (and yes I can cross my toes...that's 10 years of ballet to you!)

Me too, pardner!!!

Peace,
Frank

[Lost_Girl]

I just saw H&J SAG's vidéo, that's was hilarious really.... !!! lol

But.. even if BMM don't win, they present their movie with a lot laught, poor guy, I'm sure it's was a very weird situation. But that's was funny and they were cute together.

Anyway, cross finger for Oscar!!

[TopGun]

OK, I'd like to revisit the presentation of BBM at the SAGS in the clear light of day.

I think that when BBM was created, everybody concerned thought that what they were making was a modest indy film based upon a wonderful piece of writing.  NOBODY expected that it would evolve into the entertainment and sociological phenomenon that it has become.  We now have a situation where some very young (albeit wonderfully talented) actors find themselves in the position of having to be spokespersons for something that is no longer a movie, but a force - and they have to do it again, and again, and again in all kinds of situations where the harsh light of public scrutiny is shined right on them.  That is a LOT to pile on the shoulders of people who lack the life experience to be asked to consistently uphold high standards for this enormous responsibility.

I'm going to dismiss the presentation of BBM at the SAGS as an anomaly. and I hope that you will, too.  Heath Ledger clearly is very uncomfortable under the spotlight, and that can be an agonizing thing to have to endure.  He deserves our sympathy and support - he's an actor and a human being, not some paragon of perfection.  There are people who function on a very high level in work or social situations that are highly structured, but they painfully crumble and retreat inwardly when the public expectation is more of a "free-fall" type of thing.  Heath may very well be one of them.  IF that is true, I would hope that those involved with BBM will get him a PR consultant and/or mental health specialist to HELP this man.

Let's keep our eyes on the ball.  Despite any human failings or quirks (and who doesn't have them?), Heath gave us the wonderful gift of one of the great performances in movie history.  That will remain true regardless of the outcome of ANY awards ceremony.

Damn, I'd REALLY like to see him shine luminously at the Academy Awards!  I think that for Heath the man, that would be the biggest victory of all.

JerBear

P.S.  I know that many forum members are very young people.  I apologize if any of this sounded patronizing to you.  Yeah, some of us get older and acquire a degree of wisdom, but some of us just get OLDER - LOL!

P.P.S.  If you read this before, sorry, but I put it in the wrong place!
 
 
 

You're not just suffering from a degree of wisdom, but have a well-rounded perspective on this situation along w/ compassion. I like that and thank you for your share.

[ethan]

[francis.shim]

We wish!!!!

Peace,
Jack..., I mean, Jake... I mean... Frank

[ennisandjack]

Heath explains his SAG giggles

http://stylescenes.latimes.com/fashion/2006/02/heath_explains_.html

Heath Ledger is horrfied that some people watching him introduce a clip from “Brokeback Mountain” at the Screen Actors Guild misinterpreted his stage fright as some kind of gay spoof.

Ledger, speaking from his cell phone, called to explain. Seems the jitters started when he was sitting at the table with the “Brokeback” cast and he wondered aloud who was going to introduce their cast.

“I leaned over and asked Jake and he said, ‘WE are! Didn’t you get the script? I said, WHAT? I thought it was a script for the Directors Guild Awards a few nights earlier.”

He and Gyllenhaal raced backstage to read it and try to rehearse.But there was no time and they were told to go out onstage. Gulp.

  “I’m nervous under any circumstances in front of crowds," says Ledger. "I am not a public speaker and never will be. I was so nervous before the DGA awards backstage that my jaw was jittering and I could not get the words out. I’m just not one of those naturally funny relaxed actors who enjoy the spotlight and are so good at it.  And this was really weird because we were basically introducing ourselves, like here’s this brilliant cast and guess what, it’s  us.”

So he got the giggles. Who wouldn’t? “How can you say all that stuff – two brave cowboys - with a straight face? It was just so surreal.”

As for his self-described “teacup hand” position. “I’ve stood like that since I was a kid. You can ask me mum. It's nerves I guess. I’m a very fidgety person, always moving, never able to sit or stand still.”

Ledger wanted to set the record straight before any harm was done.  “I am so sorry and I apologize for my nervousness. I would be absolutely horrified if my stage fright was misinterpreted as a lack of respect for the film, the topic and for the amazing filmmakers.”

[Lost_Girl]

 God! I can't believe that he had to apologize  to all, for his acte.

Feel bad for him - really - SAG wasn't hard enough for him ?  :-\ :o

*sad* and *piss off*

[dirtbiker]

Bless his heart.  I can empathize though.  I'd rather have toothpicks stuck up my nails than to do any public speaking...