Topic: How did Ennis and Jack Really see each other?

[tpe]

Yep, even at this stage, Jack is still fearful of loosing Ennis at this point. It's not just "sometimes" it's every time he goes back to Texas. Back to his *half life with Lureen and Randall. The look on Jack's face as they pack up once again to end the trip tells the story. Then Ennis adds insult to injury with the November business. Jack's frustration takes a turn for the worse and Ennis knows it. His Jack is not happy to say the least. Watch Ennis's manner when Jack slams the truck door. Then he goes on to try to appease Jack somehow with promises of huntings trips and Don Wroes's cabin etc...  Jack mumbles it's time he wants, just a little more time, thats all. Jack obviously is no longer buying the money aspects as Ennis tries to excuse his lack of quality time with Jack. Ennis never just thinks that with Jack, it's not about money it's about them. Money can be gotten later as Jack's life plan would make it possible for Ennis to never have to worry about working for someone else ever again.

I think Ennis knew that money was not really the issue, and I think Jack understood this also.

Which is why this scene from the last meeting was so painful to Jack.  He saw Ennis for what he truly was: someone who loved Jack in spite of himself, and it pained Jack to see Ennis put up "practical"/pragmatic excuses.

 

[zephK]

See now, ya learn something everyday - I never considered that Ennis was talking to Jack about money as anything other than why he couldn't be there in August.  I truly cannot conceive of any reason other than that Ennis worked for the same ranch owner (Stoutamire) for a longer time than he had any others and was becoming useful there.  I'd actually supposed he'd been with Stoutamire long enough to have ambled his way at least a little ways up the "food chain" there, and might even be making a little more cash than he'd become used to.
  Ennis has given up his life - jobs he could quit just to go off into the wilderness with Jack, where he really wanted to be but was sure either one of them  (or both) would be killed if they were ever discovered.  The fears and paranoia given him by his father over "Earl" would be enough to stymie me, for sure.  (This is what: "I am nothin', I got nothin' "mean to me - Ennis gave up his life for Jack.)

[orangetruck]

See now, ya learn something everyday - I never considered that Ennis was talking to Jack about money as anything other than why he couldn't be there in August.  I truly cannot conceive of any reason other than that Ennis worked for the same ranch owner (Stoutamire) for a longer time than he had any others and was becoming useful there.  I'd actually supposed he'd been with Stoutamire long enough to have ambled his way at least a little ways up the "food chain" there, and might even be making a little more cash than he'd become used to.
  Ennis has given up his life - jobs he could quit just to go off into the wilderness with Jack, where he really wanted to be but was sure either one of them  (or both) would be killed if they were ever discovered.  The fears and paranoia given him by his father over "Earl" would be enough to stymie me, for sure.  (This is what: "I am nothin', I got nothin' "mean to me - Ennis gave up his life or Jack.)

 

I dig.

[tpe]

See now, ya learn something everyday - I never considered that Ennis was talking to Jack about money as anything other than why he couldn't be there in August.  I truly cannot conceive of any reason other than that Ennis worked for the same ranch owner (Stoutamire) for a longer time than he had any others and was becoming useful there.  I'd actually supposed he'd been with Stoutamire long enough to have ambled his way at least a little ways up the "food chain" there, and might even be making a little more cash than he'd become used to.
  Ennis has given up his life - jobs he could quit just to go off into the wilderness with Jack, where he really wanted to be but was sure either one of them  (or both) would be killed if they were ever discovered.  The fears and paranoia given him by his father over "Earl" would be enough to stymie me, for sure.  (This is what: "I am nothin', I got nothin' "mean to me - Ennis gave up his life for Jack.)

We should note that Jack also made tremendous sacrifies.  Jack held off on his dream for nearly 20 years in the vain hope of making Ennis see the light.  And traveling from Texas to Wyoming all the time certainly entailed some sacrifice, as Lureen herself had pointed out.

I think Ennis and Jack saw each other in this regard: that each wanted something in the relationship, but understood that bringing it up to the next level entailed sacrifices neither one were at liberty to compromise on.  For Jack, it was the Dream first and foremost, and for Ennis it was preserving what they had against a hostile world.  Ennis's excuses during the final meeting were perhaps convenient subterfuges, or perhaps they were truly valid issues, or perhaps both -- it does not really matter, no?  I think both understood all too well that the status quo could not go on indefinitely, and that something had to give.  This implicit understanding, only implied and never openly acknowledged, was at the heart of their dissatisfaction.

[welshwitch]

Ironically, of course, had they been in more regular or constant contact, the situation would have been recognised as intolerable much earlier. It was at least partly because they saw one another rarely, in a sort of holiday mood, with the other as an occasional break from a life they disliked, that the thing lasted for nearly twenty years. You have to admit that they saw each other as not having the disadvantages you see when you live with someone and in a situation where the most important thing was their relationship, its problems and pleasures. Not a lot like RL.

[zephK]

  Absolutely WW, and I like your allusion to "holiday," because, whatever their troubles with the arrangement, or the difficulties they had with one another over it, for both of them their meetings in the wilderness were like holidays from their "real" lives.  (Although romantic idealists like me might see their times together as their "real" lives, with everything else being preparation or longing, memories or anticipation of their times alone in the wilderness.)

[tpe]

Ironically, of course, had they been in more regular or constant contact, the situation would have been recognised as intolerable much earlier. It was at least partly because they saw one another rarely, in a sort of holiday mood, with the other as an occasional break from a life they disliked, that the thing lasted for nearly twenty years. You have to admit that they saw each other as not having the disadvantages you see when you live with someone and in a situation where the most important thing was their relationship, its problems and pleasures. Not a lot like RL.

They really didn't live their relationship in "reality".  It was all done up in the mountains, far from the madding crowd, so to speak.  But which is reality?  Which is illusion?

 

[aintfoolin]

So are you saying that if Jack and Ennis had met more often, Their differences would have come to the surface and they find after awhile they could'nt stand each other? What exactlly is it, What kept Jack coming back to meet Ennis for 20 years? I suppoe Jack at some part started to compartmentalize his life right?  By that I mean He got what he needed  from each of the people in his life,, got something from Lureen, Ennis, Randall  all his lovers, he never divorced Lureen. so she had to be important to him in many ways.

 From Ennis , he got sexual gratification  and acceptance on an personal/ emotional level.  He was Jack's ideal but  other factors got in the way, Randall represented the stability he sought as he got older. If he could have found someone with all the same qualities/belief system he had, in one person,  instead of 3 seperate ones. he would have perfection ,...real life just isn't like that.

20 years is very a long long time  Almost a life time.. familiarity? They're just used to each other ? therefore the comfort zone with each oher was there? I imagine Jack saying " F-ck it I aint goin no more" " I'll find somebody else who loves me for who I really am and aint ashamed of me."

 If Ennis could have therapy ,his assignment should be a long long look in the mirror everyday  and saying over and over " I'm gay, and I love Jack Twist so many times that he's able to say it to J ack'd face. Could Ennis do it though? Say it to himself? Or is he really to far gone?  Sadly it took Jack's death to convince him of Jack's real love for him, maybe Ennis asked himself after Jack's death,  if his fears were worth loosing the one he loved forever.  Just a few thoughts

[welshwitch]

It's easier to maintain a relationship, specially one involving physical passion, if it's divorced from everyday routine.If you're living separate lives most of the time but anticipating a meeting, there's a build-up of tension and desire, and generally speaking at the end of the meeting still a sense that you want more. There's also the lack of need to attend to the demands of existence - out in the back of beyond you don't get gas bills or have to ring the plumber! You prepare for the meeting and in a sense are seen at your best because you have nothing to do but be there and make the most of it.You're also entirely focused on the one other person who matters to you.

Problems arise only when one or the other starts to allow reality to intervene  or makes demands the other doesn't want to fulfil. "Why don't you leave your husband/wife and we'll settle down together?" is the line that must have been the beginning of the end of many affairs. Spending appreciable amounts of time together also leads to discussions of all sorts of subjects and in the end often a subject comes up which you don't just disagree abiut but which shows you there's a radical difference between you on something you see as fundamental.

So while you might end up seeing the person you're with every day, it's often their habits and the irritations of real life that cause increasing indifference, whereas in a relationship like J and E's it's less likely to work in that way. so yes, I think if they'd been together continuously rather than intermittently and for short periods they might have got to the point they were at in the final confrontation years earlier.

[FlwrChild]

Yes, but to what result? Believe me, I have a pretty intimate knowledge of this type of situation. And the question is, if that type of confrontation had happened earlier in their relationship, would it have broken them up? Or would it have allowed them the chance to work through whatever their issues were and make their relationship stronger? Would being together on a daily basis and through the mundane chores of 'regular life' have eroded the power of their connection or given them the time together for longer stretches that you need to work through your differences and establish your common ground?

I, of course, am a romantic, so I like to think that Jack and Ennis would have weathered whatever life threw at them. If they ever got to a time and place where Ennis was able to aknowledge their relationship at least to himself and Jack, if not the rest of the world.

[orangetruck]

Yes, but to what result? Believe me, I have a pretty intimate knowledge of this type of situation. And the question is, if that type of confrontation had happened earlier in their relationship, would it have broken them up? Or would it have allowed them the chance to work through whatever their issues were and make their relationship stronger? Would being together on a daily basis and through the mundane chores of 'regular life' have eroded the power of their connection or given them the time together for longer stretches that you need to work through your differences and establish your common ground?

I, of course, am a romantic, so I like to think that Jack and Ennis would have weathered whatever life threw at them. If they ever got to a time and place where Ennis was able to aknowledge their relationship at least to himself and Jack, if not the rest of the world.

FC 

The underlying optimism is right up my alley. And I agree with this hardcore. I feel a closeknit, shared homestead would eventually break a significent Ennis shell similar to SNIT's. Not only would Ennis learn to (love) project the little vacancy inside himself, but he'd become comfortable with its nourishment. He and Jack were not starcrossed strictly for shits and giggles.
As his heart would become vulnerable to the daily grind (and grind finally will have more than one meaning  ), so would his fear-branded past; this would bleed, in love's transmission, nearly to death. Certainly, it would become an oddity. Ennis' father, the incident, the fear and fragility, brushed away casually one day like cobwebs found in the corners of a piece of shelter occupied by Ennis himself and his love, Jack. Even if only written by the stars themselves.

They would have it no other way.

 

[zephK]

   ...and for another POV...

  There are at least two main reasons why many people think that Ennis does Jack wrong:  1) he never says I love you; and 2) he won’t move in with him.  Of course there are many probabilities for these behaviors, but, having been an Ennis myself – not recognizing what I had, not believing that the good in my life was there on purpose or that I deserved it; and never a good enough opinion of myself to live up to my own promise – I more likely than not see him through different eyes.
  Ennis never tells Jack he loves him because until Cassie defines “love” for him, Ennis does not know how to name what they have other than this “thing” because he honestly is incapable of knowing what it is.  The “Earl” experience caused little Ennis to retreat into his own head because before he trusts anything, before anything becomes real for him, he must have the experience of it, and that does not assure him that he will be able to name it.   He’s never seen how a loving couple behave, certainly not a loving couple of men – he honestly doesn’t know that these strong feelings and desires are love, and doesn’t trust thinkin’ about it.  He knows sex because he's grown up around animals and seen them doing it every day of his life, but he has no idea that this yearning to be with Jack, and have the pleasure of being in his company is anything other than a strong sex drive.  The love is there in encompassing depth – look at what Ennis does for Jack: everything his heart desires that Ennis can do except the one thing that Ennis knows from experience will get one or both of them killed – and Ennis doesn’t talk about love, he's not sure that that’s what this “thing” is, but, hell, Ennis didn’t say a word for the first 6.5 minutes of the movie, but he kept up his end of the dialogue with gestures and expressions instead of talking.  His gestures of love to Jack just happen to be doing whatever Jack wants, but one. 
  Ennis knows that death to queers can come randomly and suddenly, and you’re not only dead, you’re the joke of town.  And that is reason #2, the trauma caused little Ennis to realize that all the “thinking” in the world cannot protect you from people who don’t like men who ranch up together.  He gives up thinking and turns it into a curse: “You’re a real “thinker” there, Jack F*ckin’ Twist.”
  That he doesn’t know how to talk about it is a product of his exposure to people, or actually, the lack of it.  He had no role models: Mom and Dad dead, sister gets married and doesn’t look back, and bro throws him out when he gets married.  Jack Twist is the first person in his life he’s met cold, with nobody in his family knowing him ahead of time.  Ever wonder why he answers just “Ennis” when Jack asks his name?  He’s never had to introduce himself to anyone ever before in his life, at 19!  Until now, somebody older has already given the family name, or it's already known.  He’s shy and withdrawn; Jack’s outgoing and talkative, and sympathetic.  This is gonna be all right.  Ennis is on his own for the first time in his life; Jack’s been down this road before. Ennis has skills; Jack tries.  Jack entertains and draws Ennis out of his shell (and may be the first person who’s tried); Ennis protects and provides for Jack. They fit together and both recognize this fact and don’t mind it a bit, but neither of them will call it by its name any time soon.  Ennis doesn’t know what it is, and Jack’s the center of Ennis’s attention, so he doesn’t need to know its name – he’s got it, whether he knows it or not, and doesn’t need to know how to call it or not.
   Ennis knows he’s got it in abundance, but can’t name it and so can’t tell it; Jack has it in abundance but doesn’t know it, and so he needs to hear the name of the gift from the giver.  They unwittingly bar each other from the gifts they've already shared. 
  

[ksxks]

So are you saying that if Jack and Ennis had met more often, Their differences would have come to the surface and they find after awhile they could'nt stand each other? What exactlly is it, What kept Jack coming back to meet Ennis for 20 years? I suppoe Jack at some part started to compartmentalize his life right?  By that I mean He got what he needed  from each of the people in his life,, got something from Lureen, Ennis, Randall  all his lovers, he never divorced Lureen. so she had to be important to him in many ways.

 From Ennis , he got sexual gratification  and acceptance on an personal/ emotional level.  He was Jack's ideal but  other factors got in the way, Randall represented the stability he sought as he got older. If he could have found someone with all the same qualities/belief system he had, in one person,  instead of 3 seperate ones. he would have perfection ,...real life just isn't like that.

20 years is very a long long time  Almost a life time.. familiarity? They're just used to each other ? therefore the comfort zone with each oher was there? I imagine Jack saying " F-ck it I aint goin no more" " I'll find somebody else who loves me for who I really am and aint ashamed of me."

 If Ennis could have therapy ,his assignment should be a long long look in the mirror everyday  and saying over and over " I'm gay, and I love Jack Twist so many times that he's able to say it to J ack'd face. Could Ennis do it though? Say it to himself? Or is he really to far gone?  Sadly it took Jack's death to convince him of Jack's real love for him, maybe Ennis asked himself after Jack's death,  if his fears were worth loosing the one he loved forever.  Just a few thoughts

I myself wouldn't focus so much on the "getting sick of each other" through familiarity, though I totally know that's true, as WW said so eloquently, ala the plumber, etc.  I like to think that had they seen each other more often, the situation would have been pushed, one way or the other.  I think with their strong love, and as men together in new territory (without the gay support we have these days) they would have wanted it to work and would have worked on it even more.

And aintfoolin, yes, I often thought that also about Ennis:  what if he had had "therapy."  It wouldn't have happened, not back then, but if it had...  Jack had to be his therapist -- help him own his true self -- and he didn't really do an excellent job of it.

kathy

[aintfoolin]

I myself wouldn't focus so much on the "getting sick of each other" through familiarity, though I totally know that's true, as WW said so eloquently, ala the plumber, etc.  I like to think that had they seen each other more often, the situation would have been pushed, one way or the other.  I think with their strong love, and as men together in new territory (without the gay support we have these days) they would have wanted it to work and would have worked on it even more.

And aintfoolin, yes, I often thought that also about Ennis:  what if he had had "therapy."  It wouldn't have happened, not back then, but if it had...  Jack had to be his therapist -- help him own his true self -- and he didn't really do an excellent job of it.

kathy

 I tend to agree with this. Had they been together more often, they would become stronger, though sheer determination. Two against the world for daring to be different.  Battles against their love would be fought together  in stead of Jack hiding out in Texas, and Ennis living one step above a hermit in Wyoming. The strengthening  of their love  through communicating more would finally occur. No it won't all be all sweetness and light. Who's relationship gay or staight is perfect?

There is the relationship yes, but it  is sometimes all the other stuff too that builds onto their life.  They would get to know each others natual ways too, not just sex 2or3 times a year.  Jack and Ennis needed time to discover  each other really like a newlywed couple getting to know the whole person they have pledged their lives to . Sometmes it's a pretty picture sometimes it's not.   But how can they work anything out in one short stolen week?

Of course it won't work. As Jack found out and we saw, pent up anger, infidelity, jealousy and frustation will rule the day.
 Had by some miracle Jack could have convinced Ennis to live with him, washing dishes and doing the laundry , paying bills etc... is all normal household drudery. Everyone has that but it can also have something to do with sustaining a solid, loving relationship. If the love is there, It will grow and evolve for both of them. when I see my life partner trying very hard to make me a pefect dinner, or washing  the dishes wihtout dropping my fav coffee mug on the floor ,  I see love there too. It's just their way. My thoughts

[ksxks]

Lovely thoughts they are...  You paint a nice picture of the possibility of Ennis and Jack having a go at making a life together.  Well said.

kathy

[tpe]

Yes, but to what result? Believe me, I have a pretty intimate knowledge of this type of situation. And the question is, if that type of confrontation had happened earlier in their relationship, would it have broken them up? Or would it have allowed them the chance to work through whatever their issues were and make their relationship stronger? Would being together on a daily basis and through the mundane chores of 'regular life' have eroded the power of their connection or given them the time together for longer stretches that you need to work through your differences and establish your common ground?

I, of course, am a romantic, so I like to think that Jack and Ennis would have weathered whatever life threw at them. If they ever got to a time and place where Ennis was able to aknowledge their relationship at least to himself and Jack, if not the rest of the world.

I too think that I am a romantic, although I can't help to think that I go for the darker side of romanticism many times.

For me, they understood each other implicitly -- without recourse to rationalism.  In this regard, their love was romantic.  Wether one thinks this love saved them or destroyed them, one can't help but feeling that even in death, Jack understood, and Ennis -- though beaten -- would make that love endure.

[orangetruck]

I too think that I am a romantic, although I can't help to think that I go for the darker side of romanticism many times.

For me, they understood each other implicitly -- without recourse to rationalism.  In this regard, their love was romantic.  Wether one thinks this love saved them or destroyed them, one can't help but feeling that even in death, Jack understood, and Ennis -- though beaten -- would make that love endure.

Interesting, what exactly do you mean? I feel I'm drawn similarly to it, if we're on the same wavelength. There's something about the melancholia of romanticism or love or continuity that presents a certain shelter for me. It's like having not exactly a reality check but a pit stop to wherever love is taking us, to remind us we're humans that hurt and may continue over holes in the blueprint because we're not alone.
So many people wince at the dark side of things and do everything to avoid it, but I feel it's because they're without the big picture in mind.
Just a cent of my two. 
 

[tpe]

Interesting, what exactly do you mean? I feel I'm drawn similarly to it, if we're on the same wavelength. There's something about the melancholia of romanticism or love or continuity that presents a certain shelter for me. It's like having not exactly a reality check but a pit stop to wherever love is taking us, to remind us we're humans that hurt and may continue over holes in the blueprint because we're not alone.
So many people wince at the dark side of things and do everything to avoid it, but I feel it's because they're without the big picture in mind.
Just a cent of my two. 
 

I do think we are talking about the same thing here, orangetruck.  The depth of night is also beautiful, no?

I can't help but feel that Ennis and Jack did somehow understand that they lived and loved on borrowed time -- especially in Jack's last speech to Ennis and in the last scene with Ennis, where we get a feeling that certain things have passed, never to return. 

I love the fact that so many things about Ennis and Jack in the movie are in shadows.  This left unsaid.  The low light of autumn.  The inevitability of decay.  I feel that Ennis and Jack understood these things, and that it made their love all the more poigniant.

[orangetruck]

I do think we are talking about the same thing here, orangetruck.  The depth of night is also beautiful, no?

I can't help but feel that Ennis and Jack did somehow understand that they lived and loved on borrowed time -- especially in Jack's last speech to Ennis and in the last scene with Ennis, where we get a feeling that certain things have passed, never to return. 

I love the fact that so many things about Ennis and Jack in the movie are in shadows.  This left unsaid.  The low light of autumn.  The inevitability of decay.  I feel that Ennis and Jack understood these things, and that it made their love all the more poigniant.

Excellent.

This reminds me of that stunningly dim, minimal conversation they'd cast out over the mountains after FNIT. Not just the lighting but also the mood encouraging twilight, some place even more outcast than the Brokeback Mountain itself. To me it seemed to be so silently alarming, yet so intimate and romantic.
 

[tpe]

Excellent.

This reminds me of that stunningly dim, minimal conversation they'd cast out over the mountains after FNIT. Not just the lighting but also the mood encouraging twilight, some place even more outcast than the Brokeback Mountain itself. To me it seemed to be so silently alarming, yet so intimate and romantic.
 

In BBM, twilight and dawn become confused, no? 

For me, Ennis and Jack understood each other only in the half-light.  They did not see or understand everything they saw in each other.  It is in these moments that one falls in love with shadows.  But sometimes, one mistakes twilight for dawn.  After the summer of 63, I believe that it was one long embracing twilight.

Ennis and Jack are perhaps best understood by lovers of the night.

[orangetruck]

In BBM, twilight and dawn become confused, no? 

For me, Ennis and Jack understood each other only in the half-light.  They did not see or understand everything they saw in each other.  It is in these moments that one falls in love with shadows.  But sometimes, one mistakes twilight for dawn.  After the summer of 63, I believe that it was one long embracing twilight.

Ennis and Jack are perhaps best understood by lovers of the night.

Yin/yang works in quiet ways, I'd say.

I think the 20 year trip and its finale was confirmation of such twilight. Or perhaps it was a 39 year old trip.  :\'(

 - the dawn being the inarticulate shadows in one another. Each had hoped to find what they felt in the other. It took Ennis 20 years after this fact to find it. 

[zephK]

I too think that I am a romantic, although I can't help to think that I go for the darker side of romanticism many times.

For me, they understood each other implicitly -- without recourse to rationalism.  In this regard, their love was romantic. whether one thinks this love saved them or destroyed them, one can't help but feeling that even in death, Jack understood, and Ennis -- though beaten -- would make that love endure.

   tpe  -  the reason has escaped me but the memory lingers on...  "without recourse to rationalism" is a perfect way to describe their love: intensely felt but not discussed.  Their love endures and Ennis's ability to love and know what it is increases.  He grows enough that we can see it - when he sniffs Alma, Jr.'s sweater before hanging it in the closet (while she's still alive) it is a sign IMO that he has graduated to adulthood, leaving 9 yr old Ennis back in the past where he's belonged since before we met Ennis - and although he will live lonely (for now?  -  he can only go up) and his closet is still bigger than all outdoors (or at least all he can see out the window), the window does have something golden growing all the way to the horizon, and and he can see the wind still makes the grasses shift like waves on the ocean.  Something's still flowing.
  (I can't tell you how many times I looked out that window before I knew what I was seeing.  As many times I tried to assure myself that there was some hope, some future, until I found it - so it may not be "really" there, but even then, giving that golden horizon some meaning does take some of the sting out.  We are at least allowed to think that one of them endures in the light they created together.)
  As long as Ennis "lets a panel of the dream slide forward," Jack will never die.  As long as they are remembered, they will live on.


Just reading your posts tpe, orangetruck, it struck me -the film does open in darkness and evolve toward the full daylight of the ending...

[orangetruck]

  tpe  -  the reason has escaped me but the memory lingers on...  "without recourse to rationalism" is a perfect way to describe their love: intensely felt but not discussed.  Their love endures and Ennis's ability to love and know what it is increases.  He grows enough that we can see it - when he sniffs Alma, Jr.'s sweater before hanging it in the closet (while she's still alive) it is a sign IMO that he has graduated to adulthood, leaving 9 yr old Ennis back in the past where he's belonged since before we met Ennis - and although he will live lonely (for now?  -  he can only go up) and his closet is still bigger than all outdoors (or at least all he can see out the window), the window does have something golden growing all the way to the horizon, and and he can see the wind still makes the grasses shift like waves on the ocean.  Something's still flowing.
  (I can't tell you how many times I looked out that window before I knew what I was seeing.  As many times I tried to assure myself that there was some hope, some future, until I found it - so it may not be "really" there, but even then, giving that golden horizon some meaning does take some of the sting out.  We are at least allowed to think that one of them endures in the light they created together.)
  As long as Ennis "lets a panel of the dream slide forward," Jack will never die.  As long as they are remembered, they will live on.


Just reading your posts tpe, orangetruck, it struck me -the film does open in darkness and evlove toward the full daylight of the ending...

Love this. Well said!

I can't tell you what exactly that window shot alone does to me! It, with the score music continuing while we fade out, owns me.  :\'( 

[jackster]

These posts are all wonderful insights - what was Ang doing here?

Opening shot: Dawn, POV - the outdoors of the Great Plains, we are looking through the window into the truck cab, Ennis inside opening the door to get out.

Closing shot: (20 yrs later) Late afternoon, POV - the indoors of the small trailer, Ennis closing the closet door, looking out the window at the bleak Great Plains.

[orangetruck]

These posts are all wonderful insights - what was Ang doing here?

Opening shot: Dawn, POV - the outdoors of the Great Plains, we are looking through the window into the truck cab, Ennis inside opening the door to get out.

Closing shot: (20 yrs later) Late afternoon, POV - the indoors of the small trailer, Ennis closing the closet door, looking out the window at the bleak Great Plains.

Nice.

I've been very intrigued that the movie starts running along the dim Great Plains, the headlight grabbing our attention.
And towards the end, on his way back to his trailer, Ennis is found on what looks like the same road, the same business of headlight and darkness.
It really kind of beats me up, it's so hauntingly beautiful, deep. 

[ksxks]

These posts are all wonderful insights - what was Ang doing here?

Opening shot: Dawn, POV - the outdoors of the Great Plains, we are looking through the window into the truck cab, Ennis inside opening the door to get out.

Closing shot: (20 yrs later) Late afternoon, POV - the indoors of the small trailer, Ennis closing the closet door, looking out the window at the bleak Great Plains.

This is stunning, these images -- in the beginning our seeing Ennis inside, through a window, and then his opening the door and coming out.  And then the end, closing the closet door, looking out...

And I love what you said, zephK, about the view out the window, especially the wind blowing the grasses, like waves on an ocean -- this is movement and life.

kathy

[zephK]

Nice.

I've been very intrigued that the movie starts running along the dim Great Plains, the headlight grabbing our attention.
And towards the end, on his way back to his trailer, Ennis is found on what looks like the same road, the same business of headlight and darkness.
It really kind of beats me up, it's so hauntingly beautiful, deep. 

   When Ennis arrives in the tractor-trailer, he's riding from right to left, carrying a paper sack with all his worldly belongings; when he drives away from Lightning Flats, he's riding left to right across the screen, carrying the two shirts (his life) in a paper sack.

[orangetruck]

   When Ennis arrives in the tractor-trailer, he's riding from right to left, carrying a paper sack with all his worldly belongings; when he drives away from Lightning Flats, he's riding left to right across the screen, carrying the two shirts (his life) in a paper sack.

You're not helping!  :\'(

 

[jackster]

FIY and definitely OT:
The vehicle driver on the set - who was driving the semi (opening) and later "Ennis's" pickup, indicated in an interview that both were shot on same stretch of road, just days apart.

[zephK]

Ahhh, but in between the two paper sacks, we've learned a liftime's lesson of love and opportunity.  Seize the carp! (or whatever that "carpy deem" thingy means to say...)