Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[babytammy7]

I remember covering my mouth with fear and sadness when I saw that scene... :\'(

It was so sudden... I just cannot bear to watch the second half of BBM again...

  Jack Twist...

  I love you so much, Jack Twist.  :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

And that is exactly the thing that makes humans no more civilised than animals. 

Its almost 2009 and STILL this discimination is still here... People need to have something BIG happen to them to wake them up.

That BIG thing has to be a change of heart.  That is more difficult to achieve, unfortunately, for many people.

Why we dislike that scene is precisely because we see a hardening of hearts to their own common humanity.  That scene reminds us of how capable we all are of dehumanizing ourselves and others.

[tpe]

Well said, tpe, the horror of the scene was definitely more what had induced it, rather than the gore. 

By far, the worst scene in the film for me.  Makes me wince painfully and feel as if it were me being struck with the tire iron.  Ugh, just a hateful, hateful thing.

Of course there is no shortage of other heartbreaking scenes in BBM, but the difference is there is no beauty in that stark, violent one.

Yes, I would think that that scene goes beyond "heartbreak".  There is something akin to pure evil in that scene.  There are aspects of it where we can find no salvation -- no redeeming quality that leaves intact our shared humanity.  It is inhuman.

[tpe]

I only can but agree with you,Thomas; the "sound of silence" as a soundtrack remarks still more the horror of the scene.And yes,Laura,more than the gore because the murder we see is real,not some great quantity of hemoglobin to make us horrify or,better said,to be repulsed:; because there have been a lot of Jacks in the world who has been killed,if not by some tire irons,by intolerance,misunderstanding,prejudices,hate and stupidity...It's what really hurts to watch...

I think the silence was most effective -- and certainly magnifies the horror that we feel.  I somehow feel that this "device" was uswed elsewhere -- I know it is, but can't seem to recall an example right now.  Especially in this scene, what horrifies and repulses us is the thought of what we cannot hear, and can only imagine.  It digs up deep and most horrific visions. 

[myprivatejack]

I think the silence was most effective -- and certainly magnifies the horror that we feel.  I somehow feel that this "device" was uswed elsewhere -- I know it is, but can't seem to recall an example right now.  Especially in this scene, what horrifies and repulses us is the thought of what we cannot hear, and can only imagine.  It digs up deep and most horrific visions. 

Yes,the same than it's more erotic what it's only suggested,and not fully shown,in horror topics what we imagine-in sound or in sight-is usually more effective than the mere gore.

[BlueMountain]

  It's such an ART to make a movie make someone feel so many emotions...

[babytammy7]

Yes, I would think that that scene goes beyond "heartbreak".  There is something akin to pure evil in that scene.  There are aspects of it where we can find no salvation -- no redeeming quality that leaves intact our shared humanity.  It is inhuman.

You gave me goosebumps and shivers with your definition of that scene. Yeah, Thomas, evil, no salvation, inhuman...Utterly beyond heartbreak, beyond cruel....My stomach aches when I think about it....Let's not think about it, please.

[BlueMountain]

You gave me goosebumps and shivers with your definition of that scene. Yeah, Thomas, evil, no salvation, inhuman...Utterly beyond heartbreak, beyond cruel....My stomach aches when I think about it....Let's not think about it, please.

This IS very scary once you think about it! :O

 It was very evil and monsterous what they did to his isnt it... It was so quick but... just TOO much... Cold.

[tpe]

Yes,the same than it's more erotic what it's only suggested,and not fully shown,in horror topics what we imagine-in sound or in sight-is usually more effective than the mere gore.

Again, this is spot on.  Borrowing the phrase in architecture:  "less is more".

[tpe]

It's such an ART to make a movie make someone feel so many emotions...

Even when they dig up our most feared and reviled emotions, we can appreciate the high Art of it all...

[tpe]

You gave me goosebumps and shivers with your definition of that scene. Yeah, Thomas, evil, no salvation, inhuman...Utterly beyond heartbreak, beyond cruel....My stomach aches when I think about it....Let's not think about it, please.

So I guess "dislike" is not exactly the correct word to describe our feelings for this scene.  "Revulsion" and "horror" are perhaps better words -- even as we feel compassion for the victim.

Thanks Tammy. 

[tpe]

This IS very scary once you think about it! :O

 It was very evil and monsterous what they did to his isnt it... It was so quick but... just TOO much... Cold.

Indeed, you somehow project yourself into jack's situation in that scene.  That makes you feel the horror even more.

I wonder if people sometimes projectb themselves into the mwechanic-murderers...  I think such a projection occurs -- perhaps out of feelings of guilt?  I think, for example, that this is precisely what Ennis was going through when he was thinking up this scene -- perhaps he felt in a way responsible for killing Jack.  And that makes this all the more unpleasant.

[myprivatejack]

Again, this is spot on.  Borrowing the phrase in architecture:  "less is more".

Indeed, you somehow project yourself into jack's situation in that scene.  That makes you feel the horror even more.

I wonder if people sometimes projectb themselves into the mwechanic-murderers...  I think such a projection occurs -- perhaps out of feelings of guilt?  I think, for example, that this is precisely what Ennis was going through when he was thinking up this scene -- perhaps he felt in a way responsible for killing Jack.  And that makes this all the more unpleasant.

Thomasˇ. And,yes,I think we project or identified ourselves with Jack,because somehow we have been feeling his life troubles as ours too.So,somehow too,we feel his death a little as our own's.
I've always thought that Ennis felt a little responsible for Jack's murder;maybe for having let him alone,maybe for having put him in an emotional situation in which he doesn't mind what could happen with himself,for not talking about another kind of guilt; the which of having denied the possibility of this "sweet life together" for fear of what had finished by happenning.Of course,you're right; this possibility adds more sorrow to the scene.

[tpe]

Thanks also MPJ.  I think this element of empathy is why we love Jack and Ennis so as characters, and is also the reason why we dislike this scene so much.

I do think that Ennis himself felt that he was (at least in part) to blame for Jack's death.  Whether or not Jack died the way Ennis imagined it, I think that this scene is juxtaposed in his mind (and ours) with the story of Earl and Rich.  The guilty feelings can spring from either Ennis feeling that he did not do enough to keep Jack less careless, or can spring from his having driven Jack to a point of desperation.  I think both cases are true...

[smartestsonia]

So I guess "dislike" is not exactly the correct word to describe our feelings for this scene.  "Revulsion" and "horror" are perhaps better words -- even as we feel compassion for the victim.

Thanks Tammy. 

Exactly Thomas...Honeslty, whichever scene we claim to dislike its not that we hate them or something but we feel so much hurt and we also know what it leads to..that pain is too much for us so we tend to dislike them or sometimes avoid them...

To me the scene of Jack's death is traumatizing..I cry so much and am left vulnerable and torn apart..It horrible to see that humans can be so cruel and can actually sleep at night when they have murdered someone...God, I just cant digest that but sadly its true....

[tpe]

Jack's death, as imagined by Ennis, contrasts sharply with the feelings we get when watching thr Last Confrontation.  INnthe latter, we are swept off our feet by the sheer emotion; with the former, it is only dead and silent horror.

 

[ksxks]

Jack's death, as imagined by Ennis, contrasts sharply with the feelings we get when watching thr Last Confrontation.  INnthe latter, we are swept off our feet by the sheer emotion; with the former, it is only dead and silent horror.
 

Well said, Thomas.  "Swept off our feet" in the confrontation scene, we were indeed.  Painful, but full of strong feeling, love for sure.  But the other scene, there is no involvement with our hearts or any kind of higher feeling.  It's just horror, as you said.

kathy

[tpe]

Yes, and the fact that we are4 told NOTHING about the details (who are the killers, and why) makes it even more remote -- as if we see something horrible but are powerless to stop it.  This is the horror of horrors -- to see someone you love suffer and be powerless to help.

[myprivatejack]

Yes, and the fact that we are4 told NOTHING about the details (who are the killers, and why) makes it even more remote -- as if we see something horrible but are powerless to stop it.  This is the horror of horrors -- to see someone you love suffer and be powerless to help.

Yes,the horror of horrors : feeling the impossibility of helping this person you love.And watching his/her suffering without knowing why,who and almost how this person is suffering...As we said before,if one adds to this the absence of voices or noises makes the ensemble more horrible to watch.

[BlueMountain]

Wow! Brokeback Mountain should be considered a Tragety/Drama/Romance/HORROR movie 

[myprivatejack]

Wow! Brokeback Mountain should be considered a Tragety/Drama/Romance/HORROR movie 

    Very funny,BMˇ Boy,as much as "an horror movie",perhaps not...well,if Aguirre appears by night around a corner and says "Huuuhhh",you can say it's...   No,speaking seriously,you know that the real horror is not the one we're used to( guts,blood,ripped bodies,and so on); gore is the easiest resource.But watching someone being murdered for being "different",victim of the hate and intolerance...that's a real horror,and,for me,it scares me more than a thousand Freddy Kruegersˇ

[BlueMountain]

   Very funny,BMˇ Boy,as much as "an horror movie",perhaps not...well,if Aguirre appears by night around a corner and says "Huuuhhh",you can say it's...   No,speaking seriously,you know that the real horror is not the one we're used to( guts,blood,ripped bodies,and so on); gore is the easiest resource.But watching someone being murdered for being "different",victim of the hate and intolerance...that's a real horror,and,for me,it scares me more than a thousand Freddy Kruegersˇ

  It scared me more than The Grudge! 

[smartestsonia]

   Very funny,BMˇ Boy,as much as "an horror movie",perhaps not...well,if Aguirre appears by night around a corner and says "Huuuhhh",you can say it's...   No,speaking seriously,you know that the real horror is not the one we're used to( guts,blood,ripped bodies,and so on); gore is the easiest resource.But watching someone being murdered for being "different",victim of the hate and intolerance...that's a real horror,and,for me,it scares me more than a thousand Freddy Kruegersˇ

I swear MPJ..the horror of seeing the extent of cruelty that human race can possess ..it freaks us out and we r left so horrifed when we see that being different is such a punishment...Its a shame to mankind for even thinking so..it shows how low men can fall so that no one challenges and opposes their stereotypes and prejudices...

[myprivatejack]

I swear MPJ..the horror of seeing the extent of cruelty that human race can possess ..it freaks us out and we r left so horrifed when we see that being different is such a punishment...Its a shame to mankind for even thinking so..it shows how low men can fall so that no one challenges and opposes their stereotypes and prejudices...

Completely agree,Cleo.And still more because this is a kind of horror we can find in each corner,in persons just like us.Not in some weird monsters that somone has created to make us have shivers in our spine...These other monsters are REAL.

[tpe]

Yes,the horror of horrors : feeling the impossibility of helping this person you love.And watching his/her suffering without knowing why,who and almost how this person is suffering...As we said before,if one adds to this the absence of voices or noises makes the ensemble more horrible to watch.

This is I think precisely why many of here dislike this scene, even though it is not explicitly too gorey or revolting.  It is handled with such subtlety and understatement that one does not even know from where the revulsion emanates...

[tpe]

Wow! Brokeback Mountain should be considered a Tragety/Drama/Romance/HORROR movie 

   Well, it certainly can affect people much more than any horror story out there...

I swear MPJ..the horror of seeing the extent of cruelty that human race can possess ..it freaks us out and we r left so horrifed when we see that being different is such a punishment...Its a shame to mankind for even thinking so..it shows how low men can fall so that no one challenges and opposes their stereotypes and prejudices...

I think this is at the core of our revulsion: that we can see deep within our common humanity a will to cruelty.  It rebukes us as much as it shames/horrifies us.

[smartestsonia]

Completely agree,Cleo.And still more because this is a kind of horror we can find in each corner,in persons just like us.Not in some weird monsters that somone has created to make us have shivers in our spine...These other monsters are REAL.

Thanks MPJ….I wholeheartedly agree with ya..these monsters r one of us itself..a human being who has really forgotten all about humanity..I think some people really allow the evil in them to win over the good in them..they allow their worst side to be out so that anyone who thinks ahead of time or who has the guts of accepting who they truly r can just be crushed down..these people exist around the world. However, in certain parts of the world still this kind of discrimination is happening at a very high rate..

Its pains me so much to say that Ennis and Jack became victims of the cruelty of this real world….Ennis was always afraid of that punishment as well as social isolation that those fears often overpowered his love for Jack… :\'( :\'(

[smartestsonia]

  Well, it certainly can affect people much more than any horror story out there...


I think this is at the core of our revulsion: that we can see deep within our common humanity a will to cruelty.  It rebukes us as much as it shames/horrifies us.

Exactly Thomas..This gets us so angry and horrified at the same time  :\'(..It makes us angry as we realize that there is no justice and freedom for a person to live the way he wants to..He is not harming anyone..All he wants is the respect and freedom to be himself..Alas, due to such people even today people fear of being themselves..It is such a shame. I hope things will be better in the future and people will be more understanding..I think these cruel people exist everywhere and its sad and disgusting that they r so stubborn and narrow minded…

We know this is the truth and it hurts more as we know that these r the fears that Ennis felt his whole life and Jack kept fighting for them to be together ..He knew why Ennis is like this and they both kept longing for each other… :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

As horrifying as this scene was, I do think that it drove the point home -- the point you mentioned: can you the viewer face up to any possible internal hate for a person who just wants the freedom to live and love in the way he or she sees fit?  This horrifying scene has a transforming power, even as it rebuked and transformed Ennis.

[myprivatejack]

Thanks MPJ….I wholeheartedly agree with ya..these monsters r one of us itself..a human being who has really forgotten all about humanity..I think some people really allow the evil in them to win over the good in them..they allow their worst side to be out so that anyone who thinks ahead of time or who has the guts of accepting who they truly r can just be crushed down..these people exist around the world. However, in certain parts of the world still this kind of discrimination is happening at a very high rate..

Its pains me so much to say that Ennis and Jack became victims of the cruelty of this real world….Ennis was always afraid of that punishment as well as social isolation that those fears often overpowered his love for Jack… :\'( :\'(

I wholeheartedly agree with you too.Sometimes they are rather weak persons who are hidding,really,a great fear of being just like they hate.More often that we think,they hate themselves and they project this hate against the persons who remind them who,what and how they're in their inner self.Just like the Nazi in "Different",an oldmovie with Dirk Bogarde,who filled with insults the house's walls of a gay politician,while he has theirs full with naked men photos...
And yes,this is often the real world,at least the world where Ennis and Jack lived and that made them its victims.Ennis was afraid of the punishment and the social isolation,as you say very well; but IMO he was more afraid of himself,of Jack and of the things he felt.I don't know if all this makes sense...