Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[vedrana]

Yes,I have also thought that it's several mixed feelings what we se in Jack's eyes.But above,an inmense sadness...

His look there is a killer! All the pain throughout 20 years is concentrated in his look. You're right - an immense sadness! 

[tpe]

And when we know that it is the last time we see him alive... :\'(  it is so very sad! Ennis just left and Jack left there so lonely with his thoughts. 

Well, the worst part of it is that the audience largely didn't know that this was the last true look of Jack.  We really don't "see" him during the tire-iron scene, if you know what I mean!

 

[tpe]

Yes,I have also thought that it's several mixed feelings what we se in Jack's eyes.But above,an inmense sadness...

It was really a very complicated look, showing so many conflicting emotions all at the same time.  It conjures mixed feelings -- both pleasant and unpleasant -- from us, the viewers. The NY Times revewer especially noted this, if I recall correctly.  And with good reason.

[vedrana]

Well, the worst part of it is that the audience largely didn't know that this was the last true look of Jack.  We really don't "see" him during the tire-iron scene, if you know what I mean!

I think I know what you mean, but even if it is the tire-iron that killed him, we really do not want to see him there. That's not Jack we know and we want. That is the poor and sad victim of evil monsters. And our Jack is a dear lively man. That is why we can not stand that scene, apart from the fact that is violent and disgusting.

 :\'( :\'( :\'(

[tpe]

I think I know what you mean, but even if it is the tire-iron that killed him, we really do not want to see him there. That's not Jack we know and we want. That is the poor and sad victim of evil monsters. And our Jack is a dear lively man. That is why we can not stand that scene, apart from the fact that is violent and disgusting.

 :\'( :\'( :\'(

You know, I really get this strange feeling when I watch the tire-iron scene that it is not Jack, but something like a hollow shell...  Does this make sense?

[myprivatejack]

You know, I really get this strange feeling when I watch the tire-iron scene that it is not Jack, but something like a hollow shell...  Does this make sense?

Of course,it does...We have learned to love Jack,so it's very logical that we try to hide reality before our eyes; pretending that this beaten man is a symbol of hate and intolerance,but nor necessarily our Jack... :\'(

[tpe]

Of course,it does...We have learned to love Jack,so it's very logical that we try to hide reality before our eyes; pretending that this beaten man is a symbol of hate and intolerance,but nor necessarily our Jack... :\'(

This is so true, although I admit that I have never thought about it along these lines.  It is a natural form of self-defense...

[vedrana]

You know, I really get this strange feeling when I watch the tire-iron scene that it is not Jack, but something like a hollow shell...  Does this make sense?

Of course,it does...We have learned to love Jack,so it's very logical that we try to hide reality before our eyes; pretending that this beaten man is a symbol of hate and intolerance,but nor necessarily our Jack... :\'(

I believe that we just love Jack so much and we so want him to succeed in his "battle" for sweet life with Ennis, that we just don't want to see him beaten, to see him eternally prevented in his most beautiful dreams by a people who doesn't even care how dear and good, how loving and tender this man was. That is unbearable fact.

We can not see him together with them. They are evil, they are emotionless, the are murderers, they are inhuman , and Jack was our baby, our young man, our lover, and our love in that movie. We can't see them together, so we just emptied his shell, and it wasn't him any more. And we keep him in our memory the attractive man he was -from inside and outside! 

[Lobsel-Vith]

I believe that we just love Jack so much and we so want him to succeed in his "battle" for sweet life with Ennis, that we just don't want to see him beaten, to see him eternally prevented in his most beautiful dreams by a people who doesn't even care how dear and good, how loving and tender this man was. That is unbearable fact.

We can not see him together with them. They are evil, they are emotionless, the are murderers, they are inhuman , and Jack was our baby, our young man, our lover, and our love in that movie. We can't see them together, so we just emptied his shell, and it wasn't him any more. And we keep him in our memory the attractive man he was -from inside and outside! 

Aww. I started feeling really sad when I read your first paragraph. I love how you are able to put such complexities together and be able to express them so well.  The second paragraph couldn't have been more on the spot, I love  the last two sentences, we will all keep him in our memory, just like you said, from the inside to the outside.   

- wow, after reading that and writing it, I got rather emotional and saddened. Well like I was told by Ethan, I should enjoy this raw emotion, so I will try even if it does hurt...

[tpe]

I believe that we just love Jack so much and we so want him to succeed in his "battle" for sweet life with Ennis, that we just don't want to see him beaten, to see him eternally prevented in his most beautiful dreams by a people who doesn't even care how dear and good, how loving and tender this man was. That is unbearable fact.

We can not see him together with them. They are evil, they are emotionless, the are murderers, they are inhuman , and Jack was our baby, our young man, our lover, and our love in that movie. We can't see them together, so we just emptied his shell, and it wasn't him any more. And we keep him in our memory the attractive man he was -from inside and outside! 

I do think it is a protectiveness we feel for Jack that makes us feel this way.  Indeed, I find every scene we see him disappointed as somewhat distasteful...

[vedrana]

I do think it is a protectiveness we feel for Jack that makes us feel this way.  Indeed, I find every scene we see him disappointed as somewhat distasteful...

   Meaning? 

[tpe]

  Meaning? 

... that we are disappointed when we see Jack disappointed.

[vedrana]

... that we are disappointed when we see Jack disappointed.

OMG! 

I read it wrong! I thought that you said that you DON'T THINK THAT IT IS PROTECTIVENESS....

And I just couldn't connect the meaning.   

Sure! It is the protectiveness and much more we feel for him. Even during his minor discomfort we feel for him, and the killing scene is an ultimate horror for us -seeing him being beaten and murdered. Our pain we avoid by taking him out of that scene in our mind, placing him in our heart the man he was!

[tpe]

OMG! 

I read it wrong! I thought that you said that you DON'T THINK THAT IT IS PROTECTIVENESS....

And I just couldn't connect the meaning.   

Sure! It is the protectiveness and much more we feel for him. Even during his minor discomfort we feel for him, and the killing scene is an ultimate horror for us -seeing him being beaten and murdered. Our pain we avoid by taking him out of that scene in our mind, placing him in our heart the man he was!

I think that mentally, we tend to "adopt" the characters, and feel that we have a stake in them.  This is a mark of how wonderful BBM is as a work of Art.  But it also ties to to their disappointments, and to the inevitable tragedy...

 

[vedrana]

I think that mentally, we tend to "adopt" the characters, and feel that we have a stake in them.  This is a mark of how wonderful BBM is as a work of Art.  But it also ties to to their disappointments, and to the inevitable tragedy...

... and to an unbearable pain and sorrow of PBS that we all feel in one stage or the other, to one extent or the other. But the connection we establish with them is so real and so profound that we take them not as a characters, but as a close parts of our lives. I believe that I can say this for all/most of us here.

[tpe]

... and to an unbearable pain and sorrow of PBS that we all feel in one stage or the other, to one extent or the other. But the connection we establish with them is so real and so profound that we take them not as a characters, but as a close parts of our lives. I believe that I can say this for all/most of us here.

I think that this is also in part related to our way of seeing things mirrored in our own lives -- especially some of the more unpleasant aspects in the love of Ennis and Jack.  This way ofr connecting goes a long way in explaining aspects of PBS in all of us at some time or another, and why some scenes (unpleasant or otherwise) strike us more than others...

 

[vedrana]

I think that this is also in part related to our way of seeing things mirrored in our own lives -- especially some of the more unpleasant aspects in the love of Ennis and Jack.  This way ofr connecting goes a long way in explaining aspects of PBS in all of us at some time or another, and why some scenes (unpleasant or otherwise) strike us more than others...

You're right here. I needed a few months until i found out what is about BBM that is so unbearable for me personally, especially cos I had no obvious relation with this kind of a theme. I elaborated a part of it in PBS thread, and it helped me.

It is also the fact that unlike other movies, in BBM most of the scenes are cute/sexy/goood, or unpleasant/disturbing... there isn't many neutral scenes where we just don't imply our feelings like in other movies. Here, we are so emotionally involved that we personally live through each scene. If a scene is pleasant for E&J, than it is for us too, and vice versa. This movie has an enormous impact on us! 

[tpe]

You're right here. I needed a few months until i found out what is about BBM that is so unbearable for me personally, especially cos I had no obvious relation with this kind of a theme. I elaborated a part of it in PBS thread, and it helped me.

It is also the fact that unlike other movies, in BBM most of the scenes are cute/sexy/goood, or unpleasant/disturbing... there isn't many neutral scenes where we just don't imply our feelings like in other movies. Here, we are so emotionally involved that we personally live through each scene. If a scene is pleasant for E&J, than it is for us too, and vice versa. This movie has an enormous impact on us! 

The feeling we get -- even in some of the most unpleasant scenes -- is pure katharsis.  And yet, it is a purging where a strange feeling lingers long after the initial cleansing.  We call this PBS, but in a real sense, such a feeling is inherent in what is identified as the tragic element in the very best of classical drama.

[vedrana]

The feeling we get -- even in some of the most unpleasant scenes -- is pure katharsis.  And yet, it is a purging where a strange feeling lingers long after the initial cleansing.  We call this PBS, but in a real sense, such a feeling is inherent in what is identified as the tragic element in the very best of classical drama.

I don't know what it is, but I felt nothing like this before, and sure wasn't easy. Each unpleasant scene I take so personally as if it's mine own life. That I can not explain, even I figured out the symbolism of BBM for me.
But I suppose that it gets easier with time.

[tpe]

I don't know what it is, but I felt nothing like this before, and sure wasn't easy. Each unpleasant scene I take so personally as if it's mine own life. That I can not explain, even I figured out the symbolism of BBM for me.
But I suppose that it gets easier with time.

It took me 2 days trying to process how I felt.  It wasn't pleasant, but it also wasn't something I wanted to forget.  At the end of the 2 days, I just had to go back for more...

 

[vedrana]

It took me 2 days trying to process how I felt.  It wasn't pleasant, but it also wasn't something I wanted to forget.  At the end of the 2 days, I just had to go back for more...

It took much more time for me. And it was too painful to tolerate for weeks. I am still amazed how new Brokies come here all the time, with the same feeling of shock, sadness, surprise and all the other emotions that BBM wakes up in people. Incredible!

Also, it is incredible how scenes in BBM don't lose in their intensity weather we are watching them the first, the tenth or 100th time! Sexy scenes can always make me tremble, and the unpleasant ones can make me feel like choking, or crying/sobbing....
Any other movie - after a few times watching for me is over, done, never again, but BBM scenes - I NEED, I yearn for more and more. 

[tpe]

It took much more time for me. And it was too painful to tolerate for weeks. I am still amazed how new Brokies come here all the time, with the same feeling of shock, sadness, surprise and all the other emotions that BBM wakes up in people. Incredible!

Also, it is incredible how scenes in BBM don't lose in their intensity weather we are watching them the first, the tenth or 100th time! Sexy scenes can always make me tremble, and the unpleasant ones can make me feel like choking, or crying/sobbing....
Any other movie - after a few times watching for me is over, done, never again, but BBM scenes - I NEED, I yearn for more and more. 

It is a testament to the real power of the film -- that it touches people long after the initial hype surrounding the film in 2005-2006.  And the intensity of the scenes is no way impared by the passage of time.  The scenes that we dislike the most continue to have their grip on the imagination simply because they touch on the "hidden nerve".  The film may be finction, but the emotions dealt with are real and (many times) painful.

[vedrana]

It is a testament to the real power of the film -- that it touches people long after the initial hype surrounding the film in 2005-2006.  And the intensity of the scenes is no way impared by the passage of time.  The scenes that we dislike the most continue to have their grip on the imagination simply because they touch on the "hidden nerve".  The film may be finction, but the emotions dealt with are real and (many times) painful.

  Great post tpe!  
It is really a "hidden nerve". Something I never knew I have in me, some emotions woken up for the first time in life... Also, we all know that it's a fiction, but in a way it mixes with a real world in some strange manner. The worst thing is that it doesn't go away and the most peculiar thing is that none knows who's chosen to be shattered. We are so different here, but all have the same wound in the heart.

[Lobsel-Vith]

Great post tpe!  
It is really a "hidden nerve". Something I never knew I have in me, some emotions woken up for the first time in life... Also, we all know that it's a fiction, but in a way it mixes with a real world in some strange manner. The worst thing is that it doesn't go away and the most peculiar thing is that none knows who's chosen to be shattered. We are so different here, but all have the same wound in the heart.

I really couldn't agree more. I've watched other films but none of them really tore me like this. I still hurt from the emotional pain, and I'm a little emotionally damaged now but I'm really glad that I did see it finally. That hidden nerve that you guys mention had never been struck before, maybe lightly, but after BBM, it was totally rocked back and forth and it couldn't recover... it was like it was waiting for it to happen... if that makes sense.

[vedrana]

I really couldn't agree more. I've watched other films but none of them really tore me like this. I still hurt from the emotional pain, and I'm a little emotionally damaged now but I'm really glad that I did see it finally. That hidden nerve that you guys mention had never been struck before, maybe lightly, but after BBM, it was totally rocked back and forth and it couldn't recover... it was like it was waiting for it to happen... if that makes sense.

Sure it makes sense. 

[tpe]

Great post tpe!  
It is really a "hidden nerve". Something I never knew I have in me, some emotions woken up for the first time in life... Also, we all know that it's a fiction, but in a way it mixes with a real world in some strange manner. The worst thing is that it doesn't go away and the most peculiar thing is that none knows who's chosen to be shattered. We are so different here, but all have the same wound in the heart.

loreen, I am so glad that you understood what I mean by the "hidden nerve".  I find is so hard to describe, so thank you for getting it perfectly.

[tpe]

I really couldn't agree more. I've watched other films but none of them really tore me like this. I still hurt from the emotional pain, and I'm a little emotionally damaged now but I'm really glad that I did see it finally. That hidden nerve that you guys mention had never been struck before, maybe lightly, but after BBM, it was totally rocked back and forth and it couldn't recover... it was like it was waiting for it to happen... if that makes sense.

Thanks also, Lobsel-Vith. 

I think we don't necessarily dislike amy of the scenes per se -- it's just that it brings up things inside ourselves that we didn't really expect.  It is being being caught off guard with regards to things deep inside us that sometimes strikes us as most unpleasant.

[vedrana]

loreen, I am so glad that you understood what I mean by the "hidden nerve".  I find is so hard to describe, so thank you for getting it perfectly.

I believe that all of us discovered that we have something hidden after watching this movie. And even I manage to describe myself the meaning of BBM for myself, it's power to shake our fundamental being will always remain a mystery. That goes especially for me, who never had any favorite movie, or an actor... I enjoyed in things superficially and it was enough for me. Here in BBM I am splitting hair in 4 for each scene. This movie has turned me upside down! So, I know what the "hidden nerve" means... even I still don't know what it is... ?

[vedrana]

Thanks also, Lobsel-Vith. 

I think we don't necessarily dislike amy of the scenes per se -- it's just that it brings up things inside ourselves that we didn't really expect.  It is being being caught off guard with regards to things deep inside us that sometimes strikes us as most unpleasant.

In that sense, the scene which really killed me is the one when Ennis finds the shirts. That one is utterly devastating for my emotions, but it is not the one I can dislike... I dislike the scene of killing Jack - that one is also devastating, but in a different way. In the shirt scene, as sad as it is, I want to see Jack and I want to embrace Ennis - I want to participate. In the killing Jack scene, I want to escape and to neglect it as a reality.  Does this make sense?

[Lobsel-Vith]

In that sense, the scene which really killed me is the one when Ennis finds the shirts. That one is utterly devastating for my emotions, but it is not the one I can dislike... I dislike the scene of killing Jack - that one is also devastating, but in a different way. In the shirt scene, as sad as it is, I want to see Jack and I want to embrace Ennis - I want to participate. In the killing Jack scene, I want to escape and to neglect it as a reality.  Does this make sense?

I hate the scene with Jack's death... I dislike it because we lose him...    I personally realize that I also dislike any scene with Lureen... She's the character I dislike in the film due to the fact that it was probably her who set it up with Jack in the end and everything... I think that's also why I don't like my current title... Lureen... 

Anyway, I also felt the same thing with the shirts. I wanted to hug Ennis and make him feel better, and for them to see eachother  again and to admit their feelings.