Topic: Double Meanings in BBM Lines

[tpe]

yeah
ennis can't accept his love for jack...only at the end he'll understand his mistakes. On my opinion he says he'll marry Alma because he doesn't want to live like a queer and he gives up happiness with Jack. But he repents...I swear...

OT: fairy, how curious that you mention here what I just posted in the thread about when they knew they were in love...

I agree with you. 

"You goin' to do this again next summer?" is also an admission of weakness: Jack exposed himself to the possibility of rejection.  That was why he had that look when he said it.  Essentially he was at a moment of vulnerability, and Ennis read this underlying/hidden  meaning.

[welshwitch]

One of the lines I think no-one has mentioned is that quick comment when Jack is shown letting Bobby drive that tractor ( or whatever it is - some big machine that I wouldn't know what to do with, anyway). Bobby has his hands on the whel and Jack is sitting behind him and says, "It's all yours, bobby. It's all yours." Of course he's saying that he's letting Bobby drive the thing ( in circles!) but to me he's also saying that the Newsome farm machinery business is all Bobby's too, or will  be when he's grown up, and tthat Jack has no intention of sticking with it. I think he's already hoping that he's going to end up far away from Childress and with Ennis not Lureen - at this point he's still optimistic that things will change.

[FlwrChild]

I never really thought about it that way, welshwitch. I like it.

[LuvJackNasty]

Excellent WW- I never thought of that 

[tpe]

One of the lines I think no-one has mentioned is that quick comment when Jack is shown letting Bobby drive that tractor ( or whatever it is - some big machine that I wouldn't know what to do with, anyway). Bobby has his hands on the whel and Jack is sitting behind him and says, "It's all yours, bobby. It's all yours." Of course he's saying that he's letting Bobby drive the thing ( in circles!) but to me he's also saying that the Newsome farm machinery business is all Bobby's too, or will  be when he's grown up, and tthat Jack has no intention of sticking with it. I think he's already hoping that he's going to end up far away from Childress and with Ennis not Lureen - at this point he's still optimistic that things will change.

So true.  It is both a statement of fact and a prophecy. 

[jackster]

"Anything interesting up there in heaven?"

Jack asks Ennis at the reunion campfire.
Do you suppose Ennis ever reflects on this question years later, after Jack was dead, and he was sitting around a campfire all by himself, thinking of what was up there in heaven?


(Even though Jack had thought he (and Ennis) was gonna' be "marched off to hell" )

[JT]

One of the lines I think no-one has mentioned is that quick comment when Jack is shown letting Bobby drive that tractor ( or whatever it is - some big machine that I wouldn't know what to do with, anyway). Bobby has his hands on the whel and Jack is sitting behind him and says, "It's all yours, bobby. It's all yours." Of course he's saying that he's letting Bobby drive the thing ( in circles!) but to me he's also saying that the Newsome farm machinery business is all Bobby's too, or will  be when he's grown up, and tthat Jack has no intention of sticking with it. I think he's already hoping that he's going to end up far away from Childress and with Ennis not Lureen - at this point he's still optimistic that things will change.

Never thought of that either, but that's so true! 

[JT]

"Anything interesting up there in heaven?"

Jack asks Ennis at the reunion campfire.
Do you suppose Ennis ever reflects on this question years later, after Jack was dead, and he was sitting around a campfire all by himself, thinking of what was up there in heaven?


(Even though Jack had thought he (and Ennis) was gonna' be "marched off to hell" )

Its kind of ironic that it was Jack that ask this, but it was him who'll know the answer first.  I guess poor Jack got his answer and poor Ennis will have to wait for the answer.  It seems that Ennis have to spend the rest of his days in a hell like situation with out Jack.

[Twisted]

I don't know if this been mentioned already, or is my though going anywhere with this, but...

Ain't no reins on this one

Ennis saying to Jack, that he (Ennis) can't control his feelings, even if he wanted to, and Jack just has to be patient, and not try to fix it, and just stand it?

I dunno.. just my 2 cents..

[Twisted]

Another..

"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this"

Could Ennis be blameing Jack for his "gayness" ?

[Twisted]

hpv, I second NoReins's comment.   AS FlwrChild said, it is wonderful to see how many levels of meaning we can bring out in the various scenes.

Perhaps a stretch, but:

"You are welcome to go up in his room if you want."

Translation: "Go see how much he loved you."

 :\'( :\'(

[orangetruck]

Ok, I'm not gonna dig too deep here, but I was wondering.
I know many seem to get (some of) the humor in these scene, but how much? The people I've asked before don't seem to be on the same wavelength as me here:

When Jack's on his back, playing his harmonica, and Ennis is 'fixing' the tent he says to Jack, "I thought you said that mare couldn't throw you", Jack replies,
"I guess she got lucky"
We all seem to enjoy the joke when Ennis says, "Yea well if I got lucky that harmonica woulda broken too"

I think it's a good pun. Maybe leading the idea of getting lucky with Jack, but Ennis likes to mock the sound of the harmonica, sure, and it was his way of saying 'shut up' lol, but does anyone find that he also suggests he'd have been lucky if the harmonica had 'broke in two', suggesting it'd be nice if there were two harmonicas so Ennis could play one as well, but that it'd ultimately be better if the sumbitch just busted, end of story? And also maybe a hint that Jack was broken himself and needed fixing? 
I've probably butchered the idea, but everytime I watch that scene I pick up a dynamic of wit(s).
What do you guys think? Do you see it the same; do you think I'm looney; do you hear part or all of these jokes/puns; do you hear different ones?
I'd like to know. Go on, I'm a man, I can take it!   

 

[Twisted]

That's good one, Justin. And maybe Ennis wanted the harmonica broken, so he could only hear Jack's sweet voice?

[orangetruck]

One of the lines I think no-one has mentioned is that quick comment when Jack is shown letting Bobby drive that tractor ( or whatever it is - some big machine that I wouldn't know what to do with, anyway). Bobby has his hands on the whel and Jack is sitting behind him and says, "It's all yours, bobby. It's all yours." Of course he's saying that he's letting Bobby drive the thing ( in circles!) but to me he's also saying that the Newsome farm machinery business is all Bobby's too, or will  be when he's grown up, and tthat Jack has no intention of sticking with it. I think he's already hoping that he's going to end up far away from Childress and with Ennis not Lureen - at this point he's still optimistic that things will change.

Nice post, ww. 
 I also like to think it's his (maybe subconscious) way of instilling in his son the idea of free love, taking control of his (love) life and not being falsely directed; Jack shows him how to take the wheel, introduces freedom nonetheless.
Having been separated from my father figure really early on, perhaps I'm overlooking, but given my status I tend to think not.

[orangetruck]

That's good one, Justin. And maybe Ennis wanted the harmonica broken, so he could only hear Jack's sweet voice?

  I couldn't disagree even if I wanted to. 

[aintfoolin]

 Jack's harmonica playing was off. Their relationship was a little off key too. But just like his musical talent he never gave up trying to get it right, He finally got the misic right, but he did'nt fare so well or *get lucky* when Ennis threw him by not committing to live with him.

Besides , I think Ennis loved Jack's harmonica playing. His teasing was just Ennis's way of being warm and fuzzy with Jack though he'd never admit it.

[orangetruck]

Jack's harmonica playing was off. Their relationship was a little off key too. But just like his musical talent he never gave up trying to get it right, He finally got the misic right, but he did'nt fare so well or *get lucky* when Ennis threw him by not committing to live with him.

Besides , I think Ennis loved Jack's harmonica playing. His teasing was just Ennis's way of being warm and fuzzy with Jack though he'd never admit it.

 
I simply won't bitch that I'm easily amused. 
I remember when I first saw this scene, being a bit caught off guard at Ennis saying something layered and witty. The combination of Ennis' punched out words and his wit in this scene was a subtle and brilliant work of art done by Ang I'd figured.
Love it. 

[tpe]

"Anything interesting up there in heaven?"

Jack asks Ennis at the reunion campfire.
Do you suppose Ennis ever reflects on this question years later, after Jack was dead, and he was sitting around a campfire all by himself, thinking of what was up there in heaven?


(Even though Jack had thought he (and Ennis) was gonna' be "marched off to hell" )

Hell would be Heaven with the two of them there!

Another one that just occured to me: "We could have had a good life together..."

Somehow, I feel here a premonition that life would soon be over -- for Jack, I mean.  Did he somehow sense that this was the last time?

[tpe]

Another..

"It's because of you, Jack, that I'm like this"

Could Ennis be blameing Jack for his "gayness" ?

There could indeed be multiple meanings to this statement, no?  For one, he could be blaming Jack for his financial condition and his lack of anything stable in the later years.  ON a deeper note, he is blaming Jack for his inner state -- and possibly his "gayness".

[tpe]

Ok, I'm not gonna dig too deep here, but I was wondering.
I know many seem to get (some of) the humor in these scene, but how much? The people I've asked before don't seem to be on the same wavelength as me here:

When Jack's on his back, playing his harmonica, and Ennis is 'fixing' the tent he says to Jack, "I thought you said that mare couldn't throw you", Jack replies,
"I guess she got lucky"
We all seem to enjoy the joke when Ennis says, "Yea well if I got lucky that harmonica woulda broken too"

I think it's a good pun. Maybe leading the idea of getting lucky with Jack, but Ennis likes to mock the sound of the harmonica, sure, and it was his way of saying 'shut up' lol, but does anyone find that he also suggests he'd have been lucky if the harmonica had 'broke in two', suggesting it'd be nice if there were two harmonicas so Ennis could play one as well, but that it'd ultimately be better if the sumbitch just busted, end of story? And also maybe a hint that Jack was broken himself and needed fixing? 
I've probably butchered the idea, but everytime I watch that scene I pick up a dynamic of wit(s).
What do you guys think? Do you see it the same; do you think I'm looney; do you hear part or all of these jokes/puns; do you hear different ones?
I'd like to know. Go on, I'm a man, I can take it!   

 

I like the ideas here.    One can't help thinking of the two of them here, especially since the name "Twist" is supposed to represent Jack trying not to get thrown off his mount...

[aintfoolin]

Hell would be Heaven with the two of them there!

Another one that just occured to me: "We could have had a good life together..."

Somehow, I feel here a premonition that life would soon be over -- for Jack, I mean.  Did he somehow sense that this was the last time?

This is plausible, Jack using the past tense *could've* , but I've alwats tended to think Jack was speaking in terms of all the wasted years where thet could have been living the sweet life together as he dreamed they would after the reunion scene when he fiirst suggested it.
 
 Jack was feeling the dream was lost because of it. My take.

[tpe]

This is plausible, Jack using the past tense *could've* , but I've alwats tended to think Jack was speaking in terms of all the wasted years where thet could have been living the sweet life together as he dreamed they would after the reunion scene when he fiirst suggested it.
 
 Jack was feeling the dream was lost because of it. My take.

Yes, I think that he must have been primarily referring to the wasted years.  But it also somehow suggested for me a sense of an impending end. 

[aintfoolin]

Ok, I'm not gonna dig too deep here, but I was wondering.
I know many seem to get (some of) the humor in these scene, but how much? The people I've asked before don't seem to be on the same wavelength as me here:

When Jack's on his back, playing his harmonica, and Ennis is 'fixing' the tent he says to Jack, "I thought you said that mare couldn't throw you", Jack replies,
"I guess she got lucky"
We all seem to enjoy the joke when Ennis says, "Yea well if I got lucky that harmonica woulda broken too"

I think it's a good pun. Maybe leading the idea of getting lucky with Jack, but Ennis likes to mock the sound of the harmonica, sure, and it was his way of saying 'shut up' lol, but does anyone find that he also suggests he'd have been lucky if the harmonica had 'broke in two', suggesting it'd be nice if there were two harmonicas so Ennis could play one as well, but that it'd ultimately be better if the sumbitch just busted, end of story? And also maybe a hint that Jack was broken himself and needed fixing? 
I've probably butchered the idea, but everytime I watch that scene I pick up a dynamic of wit(s).
What do you guys think? Do you see it the same; do you think I'm looney; do you hear part or all of these jokes/puns; do you hear different ones?
I'd like to know. Go on, I'm a man, I can take it!   

 

 I think it was more in the *deadpan* way  that he said it that made me laugh. ( Even Jack laughed) . I feel it was just a tease just like later, when Ennis says " you'll scare them sheep off again if you don;t quiet down"  Again it's his voice. That deep mid-western drawl and yes the way he almost punches the words out. It's as though his words come out of the blue and ya don't expect him to be so witty,givin his overall quiet , bashful manner.
 It's Ennis being light. Does it several times in the film. When he relates to Jack what his dad thought of "rodeo cowboys" Jack gives him that look and gives the " the hell they are" . Ennis just looks at Jack and says" well" and that's all, suggesting that Jack was a f_ck-up too. Jack then goes into his little "rodeo ride" making Ennis's face light up like a Christmas tree for the first time in the film. I love it too.

 The horses and mules even looked  startled and curious when Jack fell. What a  charming goofball Jack is Now that's funny.

[orangetruck]

Hell would be Heaven with the two of them there!

Another one that just occured to me: "We could have had a good life together..."

Somehow, I feel here a premonition that life would soon be over -- for Jack, I mean.  Did he somehow sense that this was the last time?

"I ain't queer"

Similar to how that split-open sheep that lay like violent art in front of a somehow emotional Ennis that first Summer foreshadowed the fate of this homosexual relationship, "We coulda had a good life together" confirms.

All those years having fallen against him had rendered Jack this premonition, if not the wrecked equivelent of a threatening rejection from Ennis -- his blurred profile, hard spit to the ground and his back the violent art this time. Jack could no longer fool himself into believing Ennis could change. Ennis was Brokeback Mountain, as was Jack. This is what he came to know as he burst out, ".. and what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! ..": The mountain had taken a sheep, but this time it would take a real man. Jack was sur'nuf about as well off as knowing he would die tomorrow, seeing his love deteriorate now. Feeling that dozy embrace bleed to death as Ennis' truck stirred dust around the bend.

On horseback that Summer, staring down at something tragic, at something he couldn't understand, Ennis found an open bloody pair of shirts. Middle aged, watching Ennis walk away, Jack sees something awful, almost like a reflection on Ennis' back; the mountain had their love.

One gem, one lesson is that you don't f*** with mother nature; and, Ennis, you don't suppress it. Remember that.




 :\'(

[orangetruck]

I think it was more in the *deadpan* way  that he said it that made me laugh. ( Even Jack laughed) . I feel it was just a tease just like later, when Ennis says " you'll scare them sheep off again if you don;t quiet down"  Again it's his voice. That deep mid-western drawl and yes the way he almost punches the words out. It's as though his words come out of the blue and ya don't expect him to be so witty,givin his overall quiet , bashful manner.
 It's Ennis being light. Does it several times in the film. When he relates to Jack what his dad thought of "rodeo cowboys" Jack gives him that look and gives the " the hell they are" . Ennis just looks at Jack and says" well" and that's all, suggesting that Jack was a f_ck-up too. Jack then goes into his little "rodeo ride" making Ennis's face light up like a Christmas tree for the first time in the film. I love it too.

 The horses and mules even looked  startled and curious when Jack fell. What a  charming goofball Jack is Now that's funny.

Yep, simple enough, charming. That's our Ennis. But Ang leaves a lot to the imagination, and mine certainly is a vulture in that its instinct is to take advantage. 
 

[maggie]

There could indeed be multiple meanings to this statement, no?  For one, he could be blaming Jack for his financial condition and his lack of anything stable in the later years.  ON a deeper note, he is blaming Jack for his inner state -- and possibly his "gayness".

I read so much into this line.  Ennis is so lost by this part in the movie and he needs someone to blame it on. Jack is that person.
He's divorced and living alone in that little trailer.  He can't bring himself to love another woman no matter how much or
how little he tried with Cassie.  You know he wants to be with Jack but can't because of what his father did to him so many years ago. 

If Jack hadn't died i think he would have been content on a couple of "high alltitude f*cks once or twice a year" for the rest of his life. 

so sad   

This line and when Jack say's out by the fire "sometimes i miss you so much i can hardly stand it"  are the two lines
where i can't control my crying no matter how many times i've seen it.   :\'(

[aintfoolin]

I simply won't bitch that I'm easily amused. 
I remember when I first saw this scene, being a bit caught off guard at Ennis saying something layered and witty. The combination of Ennis' punched out words and his wit in this scene was a subtle and brilliant work of art done by Ang I'd figured.
Love it. 

Do you think Ennis ever said " you'll scare the sheep off again, if you don't quiet down"  while they were ....well you know..? That look they gave each other after Ennis said this maybe telling!... as if Jack has heard it before? Or am imagining too much?

[jackster]

Do you think Ennis ever said " you'll scare the sheep off again, if you don't quiet down"  while they were ....well you know..? That look they gave each other after Ennis said this maybe telling!... as if Jack has heard it before? Or am imagining too much?

Oh man, I like this one aintfoolin'. 

Here I always thought them sheep got scared by the lightin' and thunder storm that night. Your sayin' maybe it was the noises coming from the tent? So when Jack says "You'll get pitched off your mount in a storm like this" he's not talkin' about no horse?

  How'd I miss that one?

[orangetruck]

Oh man, I like this one aintfoolin'. 

Here I always thought them sheep got scared by the lightin' and thunder storm that night. Your sayin' maybe it was the noises coming from the tent? So when Jack says "You'll get pitched off your mount in a storm like this" he's not talkin' about no horse?

  How'd I miss that one?

 
Nice.

[tpe]

"I ain't queer"

Similar to how that split-open sheep that lay like violent art in front of a somehow emotional Ennis that first Summer foreshadowed the fate of this homosexual relationship, "We coulda had a good life together" confirms.

All those years having fallen against him had rendered Jack this premonition, if not the wrecked equivelent of a threatening rejection from Ennis -- his blurred profile, hard spit to the ground and his back the violent art this time. Jack could no longer fool himself into believing Ennis could change. Ennis was Brokeback Mountain, as was Jack. This is what he came to know as he burst out, ".. and what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! ..": The mountain had taken a sheep, but this time it would take a real man. Jack was sur'nuf about as well off as knowing he would die tomorrow, seeing his love deteriorate now. Feeling that dozy embrace bleed to death as Ennis' truck stirred dust around the bend.

On horseback that Summer, staring down at something tragic, at something he couldn't understand, Ennis found an open bloody pair of shirts. Middle aged, watching Ennis walk away, Jack sees something awful, almost like a reflection on Ennis' back; the mountain had their love.

One gem, one lesson is that you don't f*** with mother nature; and, Ennis, you don't suppress it. Remember that.




 :\'(

The remains of the sheep is an image that does embody multiple meanings, as discussed in the thread dealing with this scene.

Perhaps Ennis heeded the premonition -- but alas, in the wrong way!