Topic: Significane of Ennis entering the Tent *Spoiler*

[atalley]

I don't think that Jack was effeminate at all, and maybe Ennis also didn't think it in that way. But Jack's way of accepting himself as a man in love with another man was the huge difference from Ennis's idea of himself.

Now when you ask, I believe that Jack being so open about his feelings, so brave in fighting for his man's love, not caring for others' opinion, made Ennis even more paranoid! I suppose that, had Jack being more private about his feelings, Ennis would've felt more comfortable about it!

That is surely one of the reasons why he said "boys like you" - boys who openly wants to live with another guy! The timing of this statement (after Jack mentioned his past tense proposal for a common life) shows that Ennis deliberately wanted to hurt Jack!

Also Ennis thought - if he wants to be with me so badly, maybe he's also doing it with other guys. Therefore he said: Ever been to Mexico, Jack?

Very sad and hurtful scene!  :\'( At the same time very complicated....

I think these are very good insights, Loreen.

[vedrana]

I think these are very good insights, Loreen.

Thanks, Attaley!

[tpe]

I have to admit that i wasn't sure if Ennis was saying that FNIT was "one shot thing" or their relationship altogether on Brokeback.

I assume that he was shy (I know that I would be!  )

I think that in an old discussion about this, someone convinced me that it referred to the relationship for the entire summer. 

[tpe]

I think it is a mixture of feelings and reactions,as almost always in Ennis case...As always,he felt attracted but repulsed,shy to show it but in a rush willing...
  A cake? a cherry?...I thought we were speaking about another kind of fruit...OK, shut up ¡.

So you also thought that he was unwilling to show how much he really eanted, it, correct?  I did think part of the shyness was the fear of appearing to be too eager.  But I do admit that part of it must also have been some remorse at his rather curt treatment of Jack right after FNIT.

I thought cherry was the right fruit. 



 

[vedrana]

I think that in an old discussion about this, someone convinced me that it referred to the relationship for the entire summer. 

Hm... possible. At first i thought that it refers only to FNIT.

But the "one shot thing" lasted for nearly 20 years... that was a hell of the "one shot"....

[tpe]

Hm... possible. At first i thought that it refers only to FNIT.

I think this was also my original position. 

[vedrana]

So you also thought that he was unwilling to show how much he really eanted, it, correct?  I did think part of the shyness was the fear of appearing to be too eager.  But I do admit that part of it must also have been some remorse at his rather curt treatment of Jack right after FNIT.

I thought cherry was the right fruit. 

I think that the very entering the tent showed that he was eager! He didn't have to jump in the tent or run into the tent. The very intention that he had to go to Jack was pretty much clear enough. And the reluctance would be normal even for much more "normal" people and relationship than Ennis and his love for other man was (in his head).

He just did it for the first time in his life.... and damn!   He did it with a man! And he wanted more.... sure he was shy, but extremely eager to go for more, otherwise his shame would have won over his wish. But it didn't!   And there we go.... SNIT happened.....

I agree tpe - it was the cherry cake! All the way through....

[tpe]

I think that the very entering the tent showed that he was eager! He didn't have to jump in the tent or run into the tent. The very intention that he had to go to Jack was pretty much clear enough. And the reluctance would be normal even for much more "normal" people and relationship than Ennis and his love for other man was (in his head).

He just did it for the first time in his life.... and damn!   He did it with a man! And he wanted more.... sure he was shy, but extremely eager to go for more, otherwise his shame would have won over his wish. But it didn't!   And there we go.... SNIT happened.....

I agree tpe - it was the cherry cake! All the way through....

But we somehow sense that he was trying to hold himself back all the time, correct?  Even when Jack started kissing and touching him, he could barely let go...

[vedrana]

I think this was also my original position. 

In fact the question is - did Ennis said to Jack on the hill that it was a "one shot thing" or that it is a "one shot thing"??

If he said "was" than it means -only FNIT,

but if "is", than it is a whole thing....

[vedrana]

But we somehow sense that he was trying to hold himself back all the time, correct?  Even when Jack started kissing and touching him, he could barely let go...

Yes  ... uh... yummy...

Give me a moment ....

OK!

Ennis was so innocent (unlike some others here), it was probably his first real kiss in his life... I don't expect much more of him there. Especially coz he was just about to willingly and soberly make love with a man... I think that it wasn't easy to him.

All his movements and facial expression showed how much he wanted and needed that physical love with Jack, but expectedly with a certain restrains which were probably thoroughly dead after that nigh! 

[tpe]

Yes  ... uh... yummy...

Give me a moment ....

OK!

Ennis was so innocent (unlike some others here), it was probably his first real kiss in his life... I don't expect much more of him there. Especially coz he was just about to willingly and soberly make love with a man... I think that it wasn't easy to him.

All his movements and facial expression showed how much he wanted and needed that physical love with Jack, but expectedly with a certain restrains which were probably thoroughly dead after that nigh! 

This is a good point.  Perhaps it was indeed his first kiss.  I wonder if he ever kissed Alma...  Sounds hard to believe that you would never have kissed someone you are about to marry, but with Ennis, it could be possible...

[vedrana]

This is a good point.  Perhaps it was indeed his first kiss.  I wonder if he ever kissed Alma...  Sounds hard to believe that you would never have kissed someone you are about to marry, but with Ennis, it could be possible...

I assume that he did kiss Alma, but not the real kiss, just a  .. ... 

This was a real kissing and the real sex he was about to participate in.... 

[ksxks]

I think that in an old discussion about this, someone convinced me that it referred to the relationship for the entire summer. 

I didn't think he was referring to FNIT; my sense was that he meant the summer "fling."  Actually, on my first viewing, when I didn't know yet what was to come, I still didn't think he was referring to just FNIT.  Why I think this is because he didn't say, "That was a one-shot thing..."  He said, "It's a one-shot thing we got going here."  Present tense, not past.  Which made me think it was going to be an ongoing thing, or Ennis was willing for it to be, something like that.  He sure didn't say, I ain't queer and you lay a hand on me and I'll kill you.

kathy

[ksxks]

I think that the very entering the tent showed that he was eager! He didn't have to jump in the tent or run into the tent. The very intention that he had to go to Jack was pretty much clear enough. And the reluctance would be normal even for much more "normal" people and relationship than Ennis and his love for other man was (in his head).

He just did it for the first time in his life.... and damn!   He did it with a man! And he wanted more.... sure he was shy, but extremely eager to go for more, otherwise his shame would have won over his wish. But it didn't!   And there we go.... SNIT happened.....

I agree tpe - it was the cherry cake! All the way through....

I didn't see Ennis's hesitation as any reluctance, but only nervousness.  I would be nervous if I were him.  Have another smoke or something, mess with the fire...while he's on fire himself for Jack.  Also, maybe he was just letting Jack have his space in there, get himself ready, made up their little love nest

kathy

[vedrana]

I didn't see Ennis's hesitation as any reluctance, but only nervousness.  I would be nervous if I were him.  Have another smoke or something, mess with the fire...while he's on fire himself for Jack.  Also, maybe he was just letting Jack have his space in there, get himself ready, made up their little love nest

kathy

Hi Kathy ,
in my mind that is very similar - reluctance and nervousness... And like you, I already said that I would be shy/nervous too. 
But somehow I don't believe that Ennis was letting Jack have his space in there or that he was in any way thinking how Jack must have felt, coz Ennis was too preoccupied with his own emotions and nervousness. Jack was pretty clear about his wishes, so I still think that it was Ennis's innocence that was holding the moment.

[tpe]

I assume that he did kiss Alma, but not the real kiss, just a  .. ... 

This was a real kissing and the real sex he was about to participate in.... 

To be sure, Jack was his first, sexually speaking.  Yes, I would say that if he ever kissed Alma before, it would have been of a different class altogether compared to the ones in BBM. 

[tpe]

I didn't think he was referring to FNIT; my sense was that he meant the summer "fling."  Actually, on my first viewing, when I didn't know yet what was to come, I still didn't think he was referring to just FNIT.  Why I think this is because he didn't say, "That was a one-shot thing..."  He said, "It's a one-shot thing we got going here."  Present tense, not past.  Which made me think it was going to be an ongoing thing, or Ennis was willing for it to be, something like that.  He sure didn't say, I ain't queer and you lay a hand on me and I'll kill you.

kathy

Exactly.

When I first thought that it was just about FNIT, I interpreted what happened in SNIT in a different light.  I saw it as Ennis unable to keep it a one shot thing.  But I think it makes more sense as implying the entitre summer...

[vedrana]

To be sure, Jack was his first, sexually speaking.  Yes, I would say that if he ever kissed Alma before, it would have been of a different class altogether compared to the ones in BBM. 

Different class of kiss intensity and feelings... I think that after experiencing the kissing with Jack he thought of Alma's kiss as completely other (paler) dimension of physical relationship.

[LOVEmesomeEnnis]

ahhhhh, i'm a brand new brokie, it's only been a few months since the first time i saw this amazing movie, and only very recently that i've become completely obsessed with it... i'm like a kid in a candy store in here!!!! got lots of catching up to do, but after reading the first 3 pages of this thread, i feel like i need to take a break    got the 2nd tent scene playing over and over in my head now, and i really can't think straight anymore.

i love it here already!

[vedrana]

ahhhhh, i'm a brand new brokie, it's only been a few months since the first time i saw this amazing movie, and only very recently that i've become completely obsessed with it... i'm like a kid in a candy store in here!!!! got lots of catching up to do, but after reading the first 3 pages of this thread, i feel like i need to take a break    got the 2nd tent scene playing over and over in my head now, and i really can't think straight anymore.

i love it here already!

  LOVEmesomeEnnis

And yes! SNIT is THE love scene! 

 

[ksxks]

ahhhhh, i'm a brand new brokie, it's only been a few months since the first time i saw this amazing movie, and only very recently that i've become completely obsessed with it... i'm like a kid in a candy store in here!!!! got lots of catching up to do, but after reading the first 3 pages of this thread, i feel like i need to take a break    got the 2nd tent scene playing over and over in my head now, and i really can't think straight anymore.

i love it here already!

Oh boy -- you're in the right place!  Welcome.

kathy

[tpe]

Different class of kiss intensity and feelings... I think that after experiencing the kissing with Jack he thought of Alma's kiss as completely other (paler) dimension of physical relationship.

I think it would be reflected perhaps by Ennis's attitude: he considered the marriage with Alma as an inevitability, whereas with Jack, it was all spontaneity...

[tpe]

ahhhhh, i'm a brand new brokie, it's only been a few months since the first time i saw this amazing movie, and only very recently that i've become completely obsessed with it... i'm like a kid in a candy store in here!!!! got lots of catching up to do, but after reading the first 3 pages of this thread, i feel like i need to take a break    got the 2nd tent scene playing over and over in my head now, and i really can't think straight anymore.

i love it here already!

Welcome LOVEmesomeEnnis.    Take your time!

Watch the beginning of SNIT and see if it looks a bit different to you now. 

[vedrana]

I think it would be reflected perhaps by Ennis's attitude: he considered the marriage with Alma as an inevitability, whereas with Jack, it was all spontaneity...

I agree, but I reckon that it was far more than that. With Jack there was a whole rainbow of emotions, with Alma it was a protective tenderness. Can't compare! 

[tpe]

I agree, but I reckon that it was far more than that. With Jack there was a whole rainbow of emotions, with Alma it was a protective tenderness. Can't compare! 

Well, they are certainly different.  But I would even say that prior to meeting Jack, Ennis must not have really reflected on love and what it reaslly means deep inside.  That is what I mean by inevitability -- he accepted the marriage with Alma as a fact, and that his love for her was a given, without questioning or reflecting how he really felt deep inside.

[vedrana]

Well, they are certainly different.  But I would even say that prior to meeting Jack, Ennis must not have really reflected on love and what it reaslly means deep inside.  That is what I mean by inevitability -- he accepted the marriage with Alma as a fact, and that his love for her was a given, without questioning or reflecting how he really felt deep inside.

This is true! Marriage with Alma was arranged and had no need for a love base. With Jack he "only" had love and the beautiful development of it! 

[LOVEmesomeEnnis]

Oh boy -- you're in the right place!  Welcome.

kathy

  i can tell!! thanks for the welcome peeps, i can tell i'm going to be verrrrrry happy here.  i have already watched bbm once this week, it takes me forever cuz i'm constantly rewinding, and pausing to drool *cough* and/or shed some ohmygodiwishthismoviehadahappyending tears... but i am already planning to watch it again very soon, and it's gonna be so interesting to watch it after reading your discussions in here, i can't wait!  got most of it memorized anyway so it's very easy to follow along without even playing the movie, but every time i watch it i seem to discover something 'new' anyway, and it will be cool to have a fresh perspective.

can you help me out with the meaning of SNIT, please? thanks!

[LOVEmesomeEnnis]

ohhhhhhhhhh maybe i've just figured it out! Second Night In Tent ?

LMAO! only took me 2 days, 3 hours, and 9 minutes 

[vedrana]

ohhhhhhhhhh maybe i've just figured it out! Second Night In Tent ?

LMAO! only took me 2 days, 3 hours, and 9 minutes 

I sent you a PM with some explanations....

[tpe]

This is true! Marriage with Alma was arranged and had no need for a love base. With Jack he "only" had love and the beautiful development of it! 

He married Alma because he probably felt that he had to follow his brither's footsteps and that marriage was something one did as part of becoming a man.

In the case of Jack and the beginning of SNIT, he probably faced his feelings and desires for the very first time -- a sort of coming of age process on a very different level.