Author Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)  (Read 522057 times)

Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #600 on: Nov 05, 2008, 10:39 AM »
I wholeheartedly agree with you too.Sometimes they are rather weak persons who are hidding,really,a great fear of being just like they hate.More often that we think,they hate themselves and they project this hate against the persons who remind them who,what and how they're in their inner self.Just like the Nazi in "Different",an oldmovie with Dirk Bogarde,who filled with insults the house's walls of a gay politician,while he has theirs full with naked men photos...
And yes,this is often the real world,at least the world where Ennis and Jack lived and that made them its victims.Ennis was afraid of the punishment and the social isolation,as you say very well; but IMO he was more afraid of himself,of Jack and of the things he felt.I don't know if all this makes sense... :-\\

In many ways, they lived their real lives deep inside, and a life of hiding outside.  The sham is disquieting in disturbing in so many of the scenes we dislike.  We understand that in a way, it is a pretense necessitated by fear of real danger, but it is a life of pretense nonetheless.


Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #601 on: Nov 06, 2008, 07:21 AM »
As horrifying as this scene was, I do think that it drove the point home -- the point you mentioned: can you the viewer face up to any possible internal hate for a person who just wants the freedom to live and love in the way he or she sees fit?  This horrifying scene has a transforming power, even as it rebuked and transformed Ennis.


Ya the internal hate can drive a person to just destroy everything that contradicts his breliefs..unfortunaltey, some people have this so strong in them that they can take refuge to acts like killing also to keep up their beliefs and to set an example to society that being different means to get killed..This way they feel that they can make people follow their beliefs and set hollow standards…

I have a question if u don’t mind..
In your opinion what did u refer to by saying that the horrifying scene transformed Ennis?.......As per my understanding I think that when a person goes from your life forever u know its true worth.I mean just the thought that he is not around can make one realize that...I think that Jacks horrifying death and Ennis in the last scene holding both the shirts made Ennis realize the intensity of Jack’s love. Even though he earlier knew that Jack loved him alot , he realized it even more and rather more clearly as to what he meant to Jack and what Jack meant to him…According to me that was transformation of Ennis….

I also think that it is transformational to all of us also to never to take love for granted when we have it. We must acknowledge it through actions, gestures and words to the other person how much he means to us….


 

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #602 on: Nov 06, 2008, 07:23 AM »
I wholeheartedly agree with you too.Sometimes they are rather weak persons who are hidding,really,a great fear of being just like they hate.More often that we think,they hate themselves and they project this hate against the persons who remind them who,what and how they're in their inner self.Just like the Nazi in "Different",an oldmovie with Dirk Bogarde,who filled with insults the house's walls of a gay politician,while he has theirs full with naked men photos...
And yes,this is often the real world,at least the world where Ennis and Jack lived and that made them its victims.Ennis was afraid of the punishment and the social isolation,as you say very well; but IMO he was more afraid of himself,of Jack and of the things he felt.I don't know if all this makes sense... :-\\
Thanks MPJ…I dint know about the film “Different”. Although as to what u told me the film speaks about hypocrisy that people have…Sadly even today many people still show this kind of hypocrisy…In Psychological terms this is an extreme Defense Mechanism known as "Reaction formation" . It means that one acts completely contradictory to his beliefs….Such people r not honest with themselves…They need to be shown a mirror and told what kind of mentality they have…

Yes dear u made complete sense by saying that Ennis was scared of himself and Jack. He was scared of himself as he knew how much he loved Jack..He had so much passion for Jack and knew when Jack was around he could just flow like a river in his arms and could not resist him in all ways….I am speaking emotionally, mentally and physically…He was afraid of Jack as Jack had the power to make him emotional and vulnerable so that he thinks and acts with his heart..Jack knew his weaknesses too…..

Ennis was in a fix…His whole life was a struggle between his own fears, his deepest love for Jack and the social isolation and punishment…




Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #603 on: Nov 06, 2008, 08:33 AM »
Ya the internal hate can drive a person to just destroy everything that contradicts his breliefs..unfortunaltey, some people have this so strong in them that they can take refuge to acts like killing also to keep up their beliefs and to set an example to society that being different means to get killed..This way they feel that they can make people follow their beliefs and set hollow standards…

I have a question if u don’t mind..
In your opinion what did u refer to by saying that the horrifying scene transformed Ennis?.......As per my understanding I think that when a person goes from your life forever u know its true worth.I mean just the thought that he is not around can make one realize that...I think that Jacks horrifying death and Ennis in the last scene holding both the shirts made Ennis realize the intensity of Jack’s love. Even though he earlier knew that Jack loved him alot , he realized it even more and rather more clearly as to what he meant to Jack and what Jack meant to him…According to me that was transformation of Ennis….

I also think that it is transformational to all of us also to never to take love for granted when we have it. We must acknowledge it through actions, gestures and words to the other person how much he means to us….

Thanks smartestsonia.

You are right to mention the vision of Jack's death and the scene in the closet as related transformational scenes on the part of Ennis.

As to your question about the former scene, note that this scene was all in Ennis's head.  We are not told whether it actually happened or not.  IMO, this scene was shown in order to highlight Ennis's realization that his own fears killed Jack -- and it follows that Ennis also realized that these same fears killed his inner life -- a life so much wanting to have a life of love with Jack.  I think that in this scene, Ennis sort of gets reborn from the ashes of his own fears.  And we see the fruition in the closet scene when he realizes the depth of Jack's love for him.

Does this make sense to you?  Both scenes are traansformational in a complementary sense, if you see what I mean.


Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #604 on: Nov 07, 2008, 08:15 AM »
Thanks Thomas for your opinion ^f^ :)…It is true and does make a lot of sense to me…

Ya we r not sure how Jack died but Ennis fears were so much that he did have a perception in his mind that Jacks death would be the height of Cruelty..he himself feared that kind of death and after Jack passed away he felt that Jack would have probably encountered the worst death..That was picture was stuck in Ennis mind....

When he hugged that shirt he realized that what was left r the precious memories and the unshakable love opposed to all odds,…Jack’s memories and love is all that Ennis has for the rest of his life….it hurts me so much even to write this :\'(

Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #605 on: Nov 07, 2008, 12:57 PM »
Thanks Thomas for your opinion ^f^ :)…It is true and does make a lot of sense to me…

Ya we r not sure how Jack died but Ennis fears were so much that he did have a perception in his mind that Jacks death would be the height of Cruelty..he himself feared that kind of death and after Jack passed away he felt that Jack would have probably encountered the worst death..That was picture was stuck in Ennis mind....

When he hugged that shirt he realized that what was left r the precious memories and the unshakable love opposed to all odds,…Jack’s memories and love is all that Ennis has for the rest of his life….it hurts me so much even to write this :\'(


There is a thread here started by edgar, which shows that one of the "mechanics" who was attacking Jack in Ennis's vision looked very much like Ennis.  The implication is that Ennis may have projected himself as Jack's killer -- in a deeper sense.


Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #606 on: Nov 09, 2008, 05:23 AM »
There is a thread here started by edgar, which shows that one of the "mechanics" who was attacking Jack in Ennis's vision looked very much like Ennis.  The implication is that Ennis may have projected himself as Jack's killer -- in a deeper sense.


Oh God Thomas…this is too hard for me..I have not observed that one of them looked like Ennis..the gulit of being responsible for someones death is the worst feeling ones conscience can experience….When they met last in the final confronation Ennis left and later he felt bad that he fought with Jack and wanted to make up..At then he got the news that Jack is no more and he did'nt get a chance to hold him the last time or to spend more time with him..I think that hits him a lot as he dint get a chance to meet up with Jack after the fight..To top it up the gulit of being a killer of Jack made things worse and he could not confide all this hurt to anyone as the fear of being judged and not understood or getting killed himself..

So he was left with this fear and gulit…The only joy in his empty life after that is the memories of love, smile, hugs, touch, words and gestures of Jack…

Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #607 on: Nov 10, 2008, 08:33 AM »
I am sorry if that was too upsetting, smartestsonia.  I admit that what makes the postcard scene and the vision of Jack's death very unpleasant is that I also think that Ennis had already decided to make ammends with Jack and possibly move forward.  This is all speculation, of course.  Still, I can't help but feel that the Last Confrontation did have a positive effect on Ennis, and his breaking up with Cassie wasa sign that he was ready to do the right thing, in spite of the consequences.  Hence, the ensuing scenes hit us harder than ever, because we are brought to the threshold of something "new", only to be pulled back to the depths of despair.


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #608 on: Nov 10, 2008, 11:02 AM »
There is a thread here started by edgar, which shows that one of the "mechanics" who was attacking Jack in Ennis's vision looked very much like Ennis.  The implication is that Ennis may have projected himself as Jack's killer -- in a deeper sense.

I hadn't realised this image either,but now that you've commented I find it fairly plausible.It's almost a post for "Double meanings...",that if this was a projection of Ennis mind -and,for this reason,imagined for him-he must feel himself as guilty of his death somehow.Guilty for having let Jack in such an state of mind where he didn't mind what happenned to him; guilty to having killed him emotionally speaking,several years before already;guilty for having denied all his hopes and illusions during all these years;guilty,even,for having let him alone,for not having been by his side to protect him as he had been doing in his way...
And if it was the representation of Jack's real death,maybe Ang had wanted to introduce it to us in this way to illustrate the many ways one can destroy love,being a good complice of who kills physically speaking.A way to introduce to us the way Ennis was feeling then and how he could think he was also a killer.Good point,Thomas.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
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Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #609 on: Nov 11, 2008, 06:51 AM »
I am sorry if that was too upsetting, smartestsonia.  I admit that what makes the postcard scene and the vision of Jack's death very unpleasant is that I also think that Ennis had already decided to make ammends with Jack and possibly move forward.  This is all speculation, of course.  Still, I can't help but feel that the Last Confrontation did have a positive effect on Ennis, and his breaking up with Cassie wasa sign that he was ready to do the right thing, in spite of the consequences.  Hence, the ensuing scenes hit us harder than ever, because we are brought to the threshold of something "new", only to be pulled back to the depths of despair.


I agree Thomas… that’s why I mentioned previously that Ennis wanted to make up with Jack…He was looking forward to meet up with Jack and of course take things ahead…The last time he met Jack they fought and things were left with so much pain and hurt...He dint get a change to reconcile with Jack, hold him and tell him what he feels. Even if Ennis would not have said anything much to Jack (which is most likely) he would have definitely conveyed through his gestures as to how much Jack meant to him….

The thought of Jack suffering to death and Ennis not being able to be with him anymore and the fact that when they met last it led to a bitter confrontation made it too hurtful for Ennis and all of us...Ennis hated himself for putting Jack through so much when they last met…He knew that Jack was so hurt and he wanted to meet up and take things in better light…The thought of Jack suffering and the thought of not being there for him when Jack needed him killed Ennis from inside….

« Last Edit: Nov 11, 2008, 06:59 AM by smartestsonia »

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #610 on: Nov 11, 2008, 07:27 AM »
I hadn't realised this image either,but now that you've commented I find it fairly plausible.It's almost a post for "Double meanings...",that if this was a projection of Ennis mind -and,for this reason,imagined for him-he must feel himself as guilty of his death somehow.Guilty for having let Jack in such an state of mind where he didn't mind what happenned to him; guilty to having killed him emotionally speaking,several years before already;guilty for having denied all his hopes and illusions during all these years;guilty,even,for having let him alone,for not having been by his side to protect him as he had been doing in his way...
And if it was the representation of Jack's real death,maybe Ang had wanted to introduce it to us in this way to illustrate the many ways one can destroy love,being a good complice of who kills physically speaking.A way to introduce to us the way Ennis was feeling then and how he could think he was also a killer.Good point,Thomas.
This is so true MPJ…u have explained Ennis’s guilt so very well…its painful to imagine all these thoughts in Ennis mind at a time...it is haunting…The fact that Jack had a painful death made Ennis feel that he is the root of all of Jack’s pain…Not just physical pain but emotional pain that he felt he gave Jack all these years by not being there for him all the time, by avoiding him at different situations…. I think that this is one of the worst emotional burden that anyone can go through and my heart goes out to Ennis...I think we can learn from this that we must always acknowledge love when it is in front of us as we never know how long the person will be able to be there with us…


Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #611 on: Nov 11, 2008, 10:05 AM »
I hadn't realised this image either,but now that you've commented I find it fairly plausible.It's almost a post for "Double meanings...",that if this was a projection of Ennis mind -and,for this reason,imagined for him-he must feel himself as guilty of his death somehow.Guilty for having let Jack in such an state of mind where he didn't mind what happenned to him; guilty to having killed him emotionally speaking,several years before already;guilty for having denied all his hopes and illusions during all these years;guilty,even,for having let him alone,for not having been by his side to protect him as he had been doing in his way...
And if it was the representation of Jack's real death,maybe Ang had wanted to introduce it to us in this way to illustrate the many ways one can destroy love,being a good complice of who kills physically speaking.A way to introduce to us the way Ennis was feeling then and how he could think he was also a killer.Good point,Thomas.

I was also quite startled when edgar posted the picture and proposed the similarity.  The "mechanic" (who is never really introduced this way) is perhaps a personification of his own guilt.  It ties in beautifully with his vision of Jack's death...

I do agree with you about Ang.  A friend of mine had commented that a director friend of his told him that you don't do a scene that way unless you really want the audience to believe that waht they are seeing actually happened.  It is a form of cinematic suggestion/projection I guess...


Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #612 on: Nov 11, 2008, 10:15 AM »
I agree Thomas… that’s why I mentioned previously that Ennis wanted to make up with Jack…He was looking forward to meet up with Jack and of course take things ahead…The last time he met Jack they fought and things were left with so much pain and hurt...He dint get a change to reconcile with Jack, hold him and tell him what he feels. Even if Ennis would not have said anything much to Jack (which is most likely) he would have definitely conveyed through his gestures as to how much Jack meant to him….

The thought of Jack suffering to death and Ennis not being able to be with him anymore and the fact that when they met last it led to a bitter confrontation made it too hurtful for Ennis and all of us...Ennis hated himself for putting Jack through so much when they last met…He knew that Jack was so hurt and he wanted to meet up and take things in better light…The thought of Jack suffering and the thought of not being there for him when Jack needed him killed Ennis from inside….

I really sensed that there was something he wanted to do or say differently the next time he was to meet with Jack.  I just felt it.  The vision of jack's death may have been a reaction to the cruelty of fate and his feelings of unresolved guilt.  Perhaps he wanted to seek resolution in the next meeting with Jack.  Who knows?  perhaps he was ready by then to have a life together -- we will never really know...  This makes the murder scene especially distasteful.  It would seem to terminate the flow of "what could have been" in midstream.


Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #613 on: Nov 11, 2008, 01:05 PM »
This is so true MPJ…u have explained Ennis’s guilt so very well…its painful to imagine all these thoughts in Ennis mind at a time...it is haunting…The fact that Jack had a painful death made Ennis feel that he is the root of all of Jack’s pain…Not just physical pain but emotional pain that he felt he gave Jack all these years by not being there for him all the time, by avoiding him at different situations…. I think that this is one of the worst emotional burden that anyone can go through and my heart goes out to Ennis...I think we can learn from this that we must always acknowledge love when it is in front of us as we never know how long the person will be able to be there with us…

 :t) Cleo¡ I agree with you that feeling oneself the root of all the loved person's misfortunes to end being killed,having you killed him before in so many ways,it's a really unbearable burden to carry all your life onwards.The greatest lesson we can learn from BBM and Ennis tragedy is what you say so well; live your love now because you never know if there's a tomorrow for both of you.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
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Offline myprivatejack

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #614 on: Nov 11, 2008, 01:10 PM »
I was also quite startled when edgar posted the picture and proposed the similarity.  The "mechanic" (who is never really introduced this way) is perhaps a personification of his own guilt.  It ties in beautifully with his vision of Jack's death...

I do agree with you about Ang.  A friend of mine had commented that a director friend of his told him that you don't do a scene that way unless you really want the audience to believe that waht they are seeing actually happened.  It is a form of cinematic suggestion/projection I guess...

Yes,this supposed mechanic can be the ghost of all Ennis doubts and fears,the personification of him as a love's killer-to say it in some way...-.Very good words from your friend's friend,by the way; it's true,but I keep on saying that this "what they are seeing" may be perfectly another way of killing Jack,not only physically.
Ennis’s eyes gone bright with shock, mouth opening then closing again. “Love?” Ennis said finally, voice strangling in his throat.

Jack smiled sad. “Yeah, Ennis. Love.” Leaned forward and kissed Ennis’s temple, whispered, “What’d you think it was, all this time?”
("If I asked")
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You will be forever in my heart,friends.

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #615 on: Nov 12, 2008, 06:03 AM »
Thankyou Thomas and MPJ...I agree with all that u guys have mentioned.

I really think that if they would have met up next time Ennis would have wanted to make sure that Jack is alright and would want to take things further...Jack’s death was a tragedy and it was even more worse as when they met last it led to a bitter confrontation...I mean Ennis dint even get a chance to make up for what happened last…He knew that Jack was hurting as Jack felt that Ennis  is sidelining him...Ennis wanted to meet up and to resolve everything that went wrong and he wanted to be there for Jack…

This is the tragic part as he lost him when he wanted and needed him the most…Jack is the love of his life and it killed Ennis with the thought that last time when he was with Jack he hurt him so much...All the years Jack kept longing for him and Jack always wanted to live with him… :\'(

My heart goes out to both their miseries and struggles :\'(
« Last Edit: Nov 12, 2008, 06:10 AM by smartestsonia »

Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #616 on: Nov 12, 2008, 08:32 AM »
Yes,this supposed mechanic can be the ghost of all Ennis doubts and fears,the personification of him as a love's killer-to say it in some way...-.Very good words from your friend's friend,by the way; it's true,but I keep on saying that this "what they are seeing" may be perfectly another way of killing Jack,not only physically.

Well, I honestly think that a part of Jack died in the Last Confrontation.  Somehow, feel that in the murder scene -- on to of all the unpleasantness we feel viewing this scene -- we see only a "shell" of the real Jack Twist.  It is as if the Last Confrontation had "gutted" him even before he met his end.


Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #617 on: Nov 12, 2008, 08:42 AM »
Thankyou Thomas and MPJ...I agree with all that u guys have mentioned.

I really think that if they would have met up next time Ennis would have wanted to make sure that Jack is alright and would want to take things further...Jack’s death was a tragedy and it was even more worse as when they met last it led to a bitter confrontation...I mean Ennis dint even get a chance to make up for what happened last…He knew that Jack was hurting as Jack felt that Ennis  is sidelining him...Ennis wanted to meet up and to resolve everything that went wrong and he wanted to be there for Jack…

This is the tragic part as he lost him when he wanted and needed him the most…Jack is the love of his life and it killed Ennis with the thought that last time when he was with Jack he hurt him so much...All the years Jack kept longing for him and Jack always wanted to live with him… :\'(

My heart goes out to both their miseries and struggles :\'(


Did you also get the sense that the "murder" scene was in fact a double murder?  I think it killed Ennis as much (internally) as it killed Jack.  He certainly felt stifled in that scene -- it took several seconds before he could respond back to Lureen.  I had a feeling that he was feeling everything that Jack must have felt, had that scene really been real. 

Well, whatever the case -- real or not -- the effect on Ennis was palpable.


Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #618 on: Nov 13, 2008, 07:34 AM »
Did you also get the sense that the "murder" scene was in fact a double murder?  I think it killed Ennis as much (internally) as it killed Jack.  He certainly felt stifled in that scene -- it took several seconds before he could respond back to Lureen.  I had a feeling that he was feeling everything that Jack must have felt, had that scene really been real. 

Well, whatever the case -- real or not -- the effect on Ennis was palpable.


I think being Psychologically dead is traumatic…It’s a life of no hope and of being completely shattered....When Ennis got to know that Jack passed away the life left in him vanished and all which was left was a hollow body was lifeless flesh…I think his life was taken as Jack was his world and his life in true sense…Even if he was scared to live with him and denied the reality to the world, Jack was all he had…

Now what is left for Ennis is Jack’s memories which is the only thing that will soothe his emotionally wounded soul :\'(


Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #619 on: Nov 13, 2008, 08:16 AM »
But at least he still had the memories.

Do you remember the scene when Jr. arrives and Ennis fumbles about Troy and fails to distinguish between 2 years ago and the now?  I don't dislike this scene at all, but I must admit that it is painful to watch that this scene illustrates how detached and isolated Ennis had become after Jack's death.  As you said, it is clear that he had been completely "gutted".  And it seems like he tried so hard to keep the memory of Jack alive that he invaraibly shunned memories of almost everything else.  We see it in this very scene.


Offline Matt Nasty

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #620 on: Nov 13, 2008, 01:32 PM »
But at least he still had the memories.

Do you remember the scene when Jr. arrives and Ennis fumbles about Troy and fails to distinguish between 2 years ago and the now?  I don't dislike this scene at all, but I must admit that it is painful to watch that this scene illustrates how detached and isolated Ennis had become after Jack's death.  As you said, it is clear that he had been completely "gutted".  And it seems like he tried so hard to keep the memory of Jack alive that he invaraibly shunned memories of almost everything else.  We see it in this very scene.


i never thought of it that way but it makes alot of sense and i agree with you 100%

Offline Romeo164

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #621 on: Nov 14, 2008, 02:13 AM »
But at least he still had the memories.

Do you remember the scene when Jr. arrives and Ennis fumbles about Troy and fails to distinguish between 2 years ago and the now?  I don't dislike this scene at all, but I must admit that it is painful to watch that this scene illustrates how detached and isolated Ennis had become after Jack's death.  As you said, it is clear that he had been completely "gutted".  And it seems like he tried so hard to keep the memory of Jack alive that he invaraibly shunned memories of almost everything else.  We see it in this very scene.



It's interesting how different people view a certain scene differently from another. I saw this scene as a rather endearing way Ennis was treating his daughter, almost playing with her gently. It's actually a happy scene for me, followed by the realization his daughter found the love of her life at about the same age as he did...and the possibility of what could have been.

I think it's how scenes address a certain emotion in different viewers that keep many of us drawn to this film and to an additional extent this site...even 3-4 years after the event.



Your folks just called you Ennis?

Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #622 on: Nov 14, 2008, 08:51 AM »
i never thought of it that way but it makes alot of sense and i agree with you 100%

Thanks Matt.  :)


It's interesting how different people view a certain scene differently from another. I saw this scene as a rather endearing way Ennis was treating his daughter, almost playing with her gently. It's actually a happy scene for me, followed by the realization his daughter found the love of her life at about the same age as he did...and the possibility of what could have been.

I think it's how scenes address a certain emotion in different viewers that keep many of us drawn to this film and to an additional extent this site...even 3-4 years after the event.

Very interesting, Romeo.  I had not thought of it this way.  I had actually thought that he was out of synch with what was happening to Jr.  But what you say here makes sense in that there is an unmistakable sense of play in that scene.  It could very well be that Ennis was just teasing Jr.  In this light, it is indeed very endearing.


Offline ksxks

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #623 on: Nov 14, 2008, 11:04 PM »
I agree.  This explanation seems to me to fit exactly the sense I picked up during the beginning of the scene, anyway.  It kind of changed later, when he gazed out the window, talking about going to the wedding and all.  But I find his acting like "the old man" to his daughter was so cute!

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Offline tpe

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #624 on: Nov 17, 2008, 09:09 AM »
kathy, perhaps it was BOTH.  Perhaps one was working on the surface, and the other on a more subconscious level...


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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #625 on: Nov 22, 2008, 06:05 PM »
OMG! After reading all your posts about FC, I am devastated again. That scene was disturbing for me because it was the last time that Ennis and Jack were together! But I never thought about it in a way that Jack's death had already started there, that he was dead inside for Ennis rejected him so many times. Oh! I feel so so so sorry for Jack! His pain is my open wound, and after reading this thread, you even put the salt on that wound! :\'( :\'( :\'(

For so many times in the movie Jack was the one who should be comforted, but instead - he always comforted Ennis. I remember first time in the mountain after reunion, he was rejected by Ennis. He was so down, but he caressed Ennis's face with his hand so gently. Even in FC, as much as he was beaten and defeated, pushed away, again HE was the one who hold Ennis and calmed him down.

I can not say that I do not feel for Ennis, as he's the one who was left in pain (Jack went to Brokeback mountain! :ghug:), but Jack's obvious pain during the years of their hidden love affair, make me so beaten up, so sorrowful that I can hardly breathe! He was a man in such a need of love and the person he loved the most was never able to return in the same manner. Even so, Jack functioned so well! He could adopt to any situation. Unlike Ennis, who was a very destructive person, Jack kept his marriage, although was ready to leave Lureen at any moment. But he manage to deal with any situation... except with the person he loved the most - Ennis.
Jack was so alive, so lovely and so deeply unhappy!

Dear dear Jack!  :\'(

My PBS is coming back in it's worse! :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'( :\'(
« Last Edit: Nov 22, 2008, 06:30 PM by loreen »

Offline atalley

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #626 on: Nov 22, 2008, 06:19 PM »
I agree..."dear, dear Jack".  Never saw his dreams fulfilled; the least they could've done was scatter his ashes up on BB.

vedrana

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #627 on: Nov 22, 2008, 06:29 PM »
I agree..."dear, dear Jack".  Never saw his dreams fulfilled; the least they could've done was scatter his ashes up on BB.

Oh, that's also unbearably sad! The summer 1963 meant everything to him! his whole life was there!

But, the ash is only a symbol. His immortal soul is there, right on Brokeback, waiting....  :\'(

Offline smartestsonia

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #628 on: Nov 23, 2008, 02:43 AM »
Loreen..loved your previous posts..Thansk dear ^f^..It so painful to me to see Jack hurting his whole life and I also felt the same that inspite of being rejected by Ennis he comforted him so much..He was a pillar of strength to Ennis...All he ever wanted in his life was Ennis..He went to Mexico but that dint let him get Ennis out of his heart....Nothing could have :\'(

I also feel for Ennis and I really think that he is a victim of his own fears and insecurites..Even though he loved Jack and wanted him in his life, he was scared to open it up to the world as he would have to face rejection, humiliation and an extreme caase of death..I think when Jack tells Ennis that he wihsed he could quit him Ennis felt that nothing is left in his life..He is having nothing of his own..When Jack saw him hurting so luch and seeing how helpless Ennis has become he himself felt the hit and went to hug him...Thats how much Jack loved Ennis.. :\'(

Inspite of Jack being broken himself he went to mend Ennis broken heart  :\'( :\'(

vedrana

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Re: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)
« Reply #629 on: Nov 23, 2008, 05:28 AM »
I always ask myself the question: Why this movie touched my heart as no book, no story, no movie... NOTHING ever had!! WHY?

Why it hurts so much?

I tend to think the main reason is Jack's immense love for Ennis. No one has ever showed so deep, so passionate, so forgiving and unselfish love like Jack's was. He accepted everything, he went through an ordeal during 20 years to meet the needs of Ennis, and to fulfil only a scrap of his enormous needs for Ennis's love. Pushed away, rejected so many times, humiliated by others too (Father in law and his buyers), he always remains so proud, so focused, that becomes even more attractive to a viewer.

And when he's gone, I think it's over, but it's not. Two Brokeback mountain's shirts come to a life and shatter my heart in even smaller pieces than before.

Finally, at the end of the movie Ennis takes Jack's pain into his chest, and his face reflects every inch of their unfulfilled longings.  :\'(