Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[myprivatejack]

Oh yea! I'm so obessed with Jake that I dont even realise I'm confusing him with Jack!

But this is good,no?,because it means that Jake has obtained such a good performance that all of us identify his character with him.He's not Jake Gyllenhaal,but Jack Twist,and the same ca be said about Heath/Ennis.

[vedrana]

Oh yea! I'm so obessed with Jake that I dont even realise I'm confusing him with Jack!

Oh yes! Your obssesion with Jake G. is pretty much obvious! 

[BlueMountain]

Oh yes! Your obssesion with Jake G. is pretty much obvious! 

  lol Yeah I guess it kinda is

But this is good,no?,because it means that Jake has obtained such a good performance that all of us identify his character with him.He's not Jake Gyllenhaal,but Jack Twist,and the same ca be said about Heath/Ennis.

Yeah, Their performaces were so amazing! I think they should of both won Oscars for their roles!

[vedrana]

The probnlem with Alma is that she allowed things to go for so long -- as if what Ennis and Jack did had her tacit, but unwilling, approval.  Granted, she probably felt that it was not in her interest to put all of this out in the open (at least between them), but her increasing bitterness made her a less sympathetic character as time went on. 

It is her bitterness in the later scenes that I found most unpleasant.  I feel a bit guilty, I must admit, because she is probably more deserving of sympathy.

She sure was the victim of this whole situation. Also, I agree with you tpe, that letting things go for so long was her biggest mistake. She could've confronted Ennis immediately and see where she stands. In this way she was collaborator in their marriage fiasco.

As I already said, I always support family, but in their case was more than clear how empty Ennis's life was without Jack. That was extremely unpleasant emotion and hardest decision for me - not to take wife's side!  

 
 

[LuvJackNasty]

The probnlem with Alma is that she allowed things to go for so long -- as if what Ennis and Jack did had her tacit, but unwilling, approval.  Granted, she probably felt that it was not in her interest to put all of this out in the open (at least between them), but her increasing bitterness made her a less sympathetic character as time went on. 

It is her bitterness in the later scenes that I found most unpleasant.  I feel a bit guilty, I must admit, because she is probably more deserving of sympathy.

I am way too close to the situation so I've debated on replying in regards to the discussion on Alma. But she was thrust into a situation that I can't find words bad enough to describe-living hell is the best I can come up with. Sometimes one makes sacrifices- even to the detriment of their own well being- in order to do what they perceive to be the "right" thing, esp. when young children are involved. And things aren't cut and dry when suspended in a surreal freefall. Being forced to accept a situation doesn't always mean condoning it. And I think the times being what they were, there weren't a lot of avenues for her to explore and not to mention the stigma of being cheated on.

What one thinks they can initially live with eventually takes it's toll and bitterness does seep in. It's not so easy to take a step in those shoes, never mind walk a mile in them. I can understand her bitterness and it's obvious, to me anyway, that she didn't do a character assassination of Ennis to the girls. They still seem to hold him in high regard and that is a good thing and kudos to Alma for that.  I'm all for J/E being together, my heart breaks for all that they endured, love them both incredibly much- wouldn't be here otherwise. I'd give them that sweet life if it was within my power to do so, but I'm often guilty of being swept up in them and not paying attention to the collateral damage. Just my $0.02. 

[FlwrChild]

Good points LJN. I've always thought that Alma's behavior made perfect sense within the context of that scene. Watching him with the girls sitting at her Thanksgiving table, being the hero in their eyes, you could see her barely contained resentment. And then when he makes that offhand remark about being 'once burned', it must have been the last straw for her. Bad enough for her to endure what she did all those years. For him to try to imply that she was in any way at fault for the death of their marriage was a bad mis-step.

The genius of the way this scene is laid out is that we go very quickly from this part, and his resulting threatening behavior toward her, to the part where he storms out and goes to the bar and gets beaten up by the trucker that he assaults. Before we've even had a chance to really absorb his nearly violent behavior towards Alma, he's put into a perilous situation that brings our sympathies right back to him again. And the following scene is so melancholy, it's hard not to continue to be swept up in the boys' perspective throughout the film. I love them both dearly, and I think that they were all thrown into this disastrous set of circumstances because of the pressures and attitudes of the time, and Ennis' resultant fears, but I can't dismiss the impact it had on Alma and Lureen, as well as Jack and Ennis. I think Ang Lee did a great job of showing us that collateral damage you referred to, and in such a subtle yet definite way. It never diminished our sympathies and support for our boys, but at the same time, he didn't allow us the luxury of pretending the women's pain didn't exist as well.


As to the earlier scene when Alma asks Ennis to move to the city, I know that some people viewed this as being manipulative on her part, but I didn't see it that way. She was a young wife and mother living out in the middle of nowhere with two kids, one in poor health, and a husband who worked long hours far away. She was understandably lonely and trying to find a place where they could have access to services and contact with other people that would be natural for her to want. I think she genuinely believed that it would be better for all of them. And I can't help remembering that smile on her face when she saw his truck pulling up to the property. At this time, even with the pressures she faced raising her family, she was obviously still in love with him and happy to have him home.


The pain they all felt in the coming years was no one's fault, least of all Alma's. Makes me want to hug all of them.

[vedrana]

What one thinks they can initially live with eventually takes it's toll and bitterness does seep in. It's not so easy to take a step in those shoes, never mind walk a mile in them. I can understand her bitterness and it's obvious, to me anyway, that she didn't do a character assassination of Ennis to the girls. They still seem to hold him in high regard and that is a good thing and kudos to Alma for that.  I'm all for J/E being together, my heart breaks for all that they endured, love them both incredibly much- wouldn't be here otherwise. I'd give them that sweet life if it was within my power to do so, but I'm often guilty of being swept up in them and not paying attention to the collateral damage. Just my $0.02. 

LJN,

I agree with that. But is it possible that this stoic side of Alma's character not to expose Ennis was also expected. We know that today many women use their children for revenging to their ex husbands... but was it the same back then? Has she got that kind of courage? Maybe that kind of behaviour would sound more like a madness: "Alma Jr. and Jenny, you know that I divorced your father because he's a queer!"

I can't possibly imagine that kind of conversation. Alma was definitely not so brave, and she would've never said that. If not for Ennis sake, but for the girls' sake sure.

I accept the fact that the circumstances dictated Alma's (for nowdays not so understandable) behaviour, but it's a whole package - not only her attitude towards Ennis, and his relationship with Jack, but also her attitude towards girls and their relationship with father - that we accept as "normal" for her.

Gee, I am not sure again was my English adequate... hope you understand.

 

[vedrana]

Good points LJN. I've always thought that Alma's behavior made perfect sense within the context of that scene. Watching him with the girls sitting at her Thanksgiving table, being the hero in their eyes, you could see her barely contained resentment. And then when he makes that offhand remark about being 'once burned', it must have been the last straw for her. Bad enough for her to endure what she did all those years. For him to try to imply that she was in any way at fault for the death of their marriage was a bad mis-step.

When I first saw that scene I was a bit angry at Ennis when he said "once burned", but later I understood that he was expressing his own regrets about their marriage. Alma of course didn't take it that way, and she bursts in the worst possible way.

I always thought that she loved him till the end. Monroe was just a man who offered a security and financial support that Ennis never gave her. She was very much bitter about the situation and that was obvious. She didn't seem so happy with her life with Monroe too.

As to the earlier scene when Alma asks Ennis to move to the city, I know that some people viewed this as being manipulative on her part, but I didn't see it that way. She was a young wife and mother living out in the middle of nowhere with two kids, one in poor health, and a husband who worked long hours far away. She was understandably lonely and trying to find a place where they could have access to services and contact with other people that would be natural for her to want. I think she genuinely believed that it would be better for all of them. And I can't help remembering that smile on her face when she saw his truck pulling up to the property. At this time, even with the pressures she faced raising her family, she was obviously still in love with him and happy to have him home.


The pain they all felt in the coming years was no one's fault, least of all Alma's. Makes me want to hug all of them.

Alma's wish to move to town was reasonable. It was the way of achieving that aim - that was manipulative, IMO. There are other ways and situations to talk over some problems. But, now I'm thinking... maybe that's that whole package I mentioned previously about Alma.
When we put her character together - also no mistake made about her.

She sure deserve our sympathy, but my emotions were/are preoccupied with Ennis and Jack's love, that I've lost my fundamental belief about the importance of happy family, and took a side of two gay cowboys.

This movie really made a huge disturbance in me. Still does... 

[orangetruck]

I am way too close to the situation so I've debated on replying in regards to the discussion on Alma. But she was thrust into a situation that I can't find words bad enough to describe-living hell is the best I can come up with. Sometimes one makes sacrifices- even to the detriment of their own well being- in order to do what they perceive to be the "right" thing, esp. when young children are involved. And things aren't cut and dry when suspended in a surreal freefall. Being forced to accept a situation doesn't always mean condoning it. And I think the times being what they were, there weren't a lot of avenues for her to explore and not to mention the stigma of being cheated on.

What one thinks they can initially live with eventually takes it's toll and bitterness does seep in. It's not so easy to take a step in those shoes, never mind walk a mile in them. I can understand her bitterness and it's obvious, to me anyway, that she didn't do a character assassination of Ennis to the girls. They still seem to hold him in high regard and that is a good thing and kudos to Alma for that.  I'm all for J/E being together, my heart breaks for all that they endured, love them both incredibly much- wouldn't be here otherwise. I'd give them that sweet life if it was within my power to do so, but I'm often guilty of being swept up in them and not paying attention to the collateral damage. Just my $0.02. 

Wholey cherry tomatoes that was said so well, Michelle. You really open the skylight on this.  And everyone else, thanks too for the good points.

[ksxks]

Agreed.  I have said elsewhere that Ennis seemed to have read Jack's coded references to his comings and goings, and my feeling was that in the LC, Ennis was just itching to tell Jack what he knew.  I really think that at that moment, there was a very real intention to hurt.  WE can't blame Ennis entirely, but it is hard to watch this upleasant side of him, in any case.

So true, that Ennis probably intended to be insulting to Jack about going to Mexico.  And also he distances himself from "boys like you" by saying this.  He ain't a queer who would go to Mexico!  Convincing himself of that, as he does all the time, while at the same time denigrating Jack for being that kind of queer.

kathy

[ksxks]

...
PS: Can we get a "blushing smile" - I already needed it so many times.... 

You're so cute!  You don't need to blush, not here!  Not in embarrassment, anyway.  But a good healthy blush as in "whew -- is it hot in here??" now that's different.  Lots of that going on here, along with thuds and drools.

kathy

[ksxks]

Yes, it is a film rich in "bookends" and contrasts.  I think some of the contrasts are very hard to watch, as is the fight scene in question paired with the succeeding scene up in the mountains.

Speaking of contast between poor and wealthy, did you find any of the squalid Riverton scenes unpleasant to watch?  personally, the scene where Ennis comes home to the ranch (the one with the babies crying) is a bit jarring to watch, because of the poverty and the seeming chaos...

Yes, I do find that scene "unpleasant."  Babies crying always adds to a sense of things out of control.  Not being a mother, babies crying is a basically jarring sound; and in this scene, the sound of Alma's washing on the washboard at the sink added to this like pounding disharmony.

However, I adored when Ennis went in and took care of the girls.  (Who, to my mind, sure seem like they were crying all the time when they were younger!  It bugged me, too, at the 4th of July scene.)

As to "squalor," I have an odd fondness for that (as long as it's not filthy-unsanitary).  I didn't mind the mess of their laundrymat apartment -- but also, perhaps that's the set designer in me.  I'd like to do set design on messy crazy interiors.   

kathy

PS:  But as a few of you know, I do not live in squalor -- quite the contrary.  But I grew up in kind of a pigsty -- too many kids, not caring if things were messy or even dirty.

[ksxks]

Speaking of Riverton... and I know that many of you will disagree, but the scene with Alma on the bad, before they started to kiss is very nauseous for me.

I didn't like the moment when Ennis is exhausted after a job and kids. Finally when finish everything, he needed some rest and comfort, he sat on the bad, and then Alma "attacked" him - simultaneously caressing and persueding him to move to town. With so low but assertive voice she continued to be tender in touch, but so persistent in her words. After this ordeal I felt jaded, and I can imagine how bad Ennis felt.

OK, he revenged pretty quickly  , but nevertheless she shouldn't have put so much pressure to him in that moment and in that way, IMO.

Very interesting observation, Loreen.  Not knowing how their sex life was, or Ennis's kind of desires with her, I didn't know if he would have wanted sex at that time, if even exhausted, that's how he liked to end the evening. 

I do, though, get exactly what you said, about Alma bugging Ennis about moving, while apparently trying to turn him on.  Using sex to get what she wanted.

kathy

[FlwrChild]

I guess I just look at that scene differently. I don't see it as Alma using sex to get what she wanted. Just a natural progression of the events of the evening and that particular conversation. I felt like she was trying to make the point that if they moved to town, none of them would have to be as lonely as they were. And of course intimacy is another way to stave off loneliness or demonstrate your connection to someone.

And as to Ennis getting revenge on her sexually, I don't think that was the case either. I think this was just something he did sometimes, and while he showed an obvious disregard for her preference or feelings in the matter, I don't think there was any other intent in it.

Just to wrap up my thoughts on Alma, I guess I sometimes feel like we have a need to villify her a little bit in order to sympathize more fully with Ennis. But I think it's unfair to do so and only masks the real problem in these situations. The truth is that no one can be at fault and people still get hurt. In this case, Alma was a true victim of circumstances. Her only crime was in falling in love and marrying a man that she thought loved her back. Ennis married her thinking, I presume, that he could make himself live a 'normal' life but was never able to get Jack out of his system or his heart. I don't think he ever meant to hurt her, but he did nevertheless. That he was forced to even attempt to live this kind of lie is the injustice at the heart of their story and they were all collateral damage. I just don't feel a need to lay blame on Alma in order to love Ennis. I feel for them both.

[vedrana]

You're so cute!  You don't need to blush, not here!  Not in embarrassment, anyway.  But a good healthy blush as in "whew -- is it hot in here??" now that's different.  Lots of that going on here, along with thuds and drools.

kathy

Kathy,

I'd really like to have that "blushing smiley". It's so convenient when I just need to say something even aware that it's not that clever or polite or off topic. But I just have to say it!  ^^) Than I just put a "blushing smiley" and cover it up! 

 

[vedrana]

I guess I just look at that scene differently. I don't see it as Alma using sex to get what she wanted. Just a natural progression of the events of the evening and that particular conversation. I felt like she was trying to make the point that if they moved to town, none of them would have to be as lonely as they were. And of course intimacy is another way to stave off loneliness or demonstrate your connection to someone.

And as to Ennis getting revenge on her sexually, I don't think that was the case either. I think this was just something he did sometimes, and while he showed an obvious disregard for her preference or feelings in the matter, I don't think there was any other intent in it.

Just to wrap up my thoughts on Alma, I guess I sometimes feel like we have a need to villify her a little bit in order to sympathize more fully with Ennis. But I think it's unfair to do so and only masks the real problem in these situations. The truth is that no one can be at fault and people still get hurt. In this case, Alma was a true victim of circumstances. Her only crime was in falling in love and marrying a man that she thought loved her back. Ennis married her thinking, I presume, that he could make himself live a 'normal' life but was never able to get Jack out of his system or his heart. I don't think he ever meant to hurt her, but he did nevertheless. That he was forced to even attempt to live this kind of lie is the injustice at the heart of their story and they were all collateral damage. I just don't feel a need to lay blame on Alma in order to love Ennis. I feel for them both.

Flwrchild  ,

I agree with you.

I actually didn't think that Ennis's way of making love with her (like with Jack) was a real revenge, I said it in a funny manner connecting her previous behaviour and the "punishment" that was not meant to be a punishment. But my words can easily be misunderstood as I didn't explain it well.

Alma is a victim by all means, I agree with that. Even so, her behaviour that night makes me nauseous. I know that it's the way how many women deal with their husbands, and I don't like it. For me it'll always be manipulating way to get something.

The question is only - was she aware the state he was in (tired, exhausted), and how aggressive her voice sounded (even so low). I don't know. She has a goal and chooses no means to get there. Not one of my favorite scenes anyway.

[tpe]

I think it was really hard for her to try to forget about what she saw and just kept a grudge for all those years... But what's strange is that she didnt even mention it once! But I did feel sorry for her when she was asking  Ennis if Jack could come inside for coffie or anything and he was just in a hurry to leave and when she asked for a packet of "smokes" Ennis just yelled out where they were and ran off... That's why I had some sympathy for Alma... She was just the innocent one who didnt really do anything until she brought up Jake in the Thanksgiving scene...

Yes, to see Alma spurned in that scene is sad to watch.  But the scene where he goes to work and leaves Ennis and the kids to fend for themselves -- I lost a great deal of sympathy for her then.

[tpe]

She sure was the victim of this whole situation. Also, I agree with you tpe, that letting things go for so long was her biggest mistake. She could've confronted Ennis immediately and see where she stands. In this way she was collaborator in their marriage fiasco.

As I already said, I always support family, but in their case was more than clear how empty Ennis's life was without Jack. That was extremely unpleasant emotion and hardest decision for me - not to take wife's side!  

 
 

In a sense, the fault was not Alma's.   So even though we understand Ennis's perspective, we can't help but blame him for the unpleasant situation.  What Alma did afterwards didn't help, but it is understandable that she was bitter.  It was amazing nonetheless to see how long she waited before she allowed her bitterness some release.

[tpe]

I am way too close to the situation so I've debated on replying in regards to the discussion on Alma. But she was thrust into a situation that I can't find words bad enough to describe-living hell is the best I can come up with. Sometimes one makes sacrifices- even to the detriment of their own well being- in order to do what they perceive to be the "right" thing, esp. when young children are involved. And things aren't cut and dry when suspended in a surreal freefall. Being forced to accept a situation doesn't always mean condoning it. And I think the times being what they were, there weren't a lot of avenues for her to explore and not to mention the stigma of being cheated on.

What one thinks they can initially live with eventually takes it's toll and bitterness does seep in. It's not so easy to take a step in those shoes, never mind walk a mile in them. I can understand her bitterness and it's obvious, to me anyway, that she didn't do a character assassination of Ennis to the girls. They still seem to hold him in high regard and that is a good thing and kudos to Alma for that.  I'm all for J/E being together, my heart breaks for all that they endured, love them both incredibly much- wouldn't be here otherwise. I'd give them that sweet life if it was within my power to do so, but I'm often guilty of being swept up in them and not paying attention to the collateral damage. Just my $0.02. 

Alma thought she really was doing the right thing -- not saying anything for the sake of the marriage and the children.  Had she started an affair with Monroe, even while she was married to Ennis, I wonder?  If so, then it would have been a way to get even.  But I somehow feel that it was consistent with her character not to go that route.  It would also explain her increasing bitterness and feelings of isolation...

[tpe]

So true, that Ennis probably intended to be insulting to Jack about going to Mexico.  And also he distances himself from "boys like you" by saying this.  He ain't a queer who would go to Mexico!  Convincing himself of that, as he does all the time, while at the same time denigrating Jack for being that kind of queer.

kathy

It was unpleasant to see Ennis act this wway -- deliberately trying to hurt Jack and making it seem that he was better and more "normal" than Jack.  People who are angry do stupid things, and Ennis was simply blinded by anger...

[tpe]

Yes, I do find that scene "unpleasant."  Babies crying always adds to a sense of things out of control.  Not being a mother, babies crying is a basically jarring sound; and in this scene, the sound of Alma's washing on the washboard at the sink added to this like pounding disharmony.

However, I adored when Ennis went in and took care of the girls.  (Who, to my mind, sure seem like they were crying all the time when they were younger!  It bugged me, too, at the 4th of July scene.)

As to "squalor," I have an odd fondness for that (as long as it's not filthy-unsanitary).  I didn't mind the mess of their laundrymat apartment -- but also, perhaps that's the set designer in me.  I'd like to do set design on messy crazy interiors.   

kathy

PS:  But as a few of you know, I do not live in squalor -- quite the contrary.  But I grew up in kind of a pigsty -- too many kids, not caring if things were messy or even dirty.

I thought that the set design was well done.  The interior of the ranch and the Riverton apartment certainly looked the period, no?  Yes, nothing is wrong with honest poverty, but it was depressing to see nonetheless...

Kathy, I didn't know that -- about your growing up in such an environment.  I guess when we are kids, such things don't really matter that much.

[FlwrChild]

Yes, to see Alma spurned in that scene is sad to watch.  But the scene where she goes to work and leaves Ennis and the kids to fend for themselves -- I lost a great deal of sympathy for her then.

  Ok, I guess I’m just going at this from the point of view of a young mother. But how can this scene be meant to imply any inappropriate behavior on Alma’s part? At this time in the story, she has gone to work to help support her family because her husband refuses to get a better job and keeps quitting the ones he has when he needs to in order to spend time with Jack. As the exchange reveals, she had already told him previously that she had to work that evening, and has left dinner on the stove for Ennis and the girls. How can that possibly be considered ‘leaving him to fend for himself’?   I took this scene to be meant to show us their growing discontent as a couple and his inability to contain his unhappiness with his life in general. Sorry if my reaction seems strong Thomas , but as a young mother who knows just what goes into juggling these kinds of situations, I can’t see her as anything but sympathetic in this scene. The only thing I found unsympathetic here was Ennis going all Neanderthal on his working wife.  ^^) 

[ksxks]

I thought that the set design was well done.  The interior of the ranch and the Riverton apartment certainly looked the period, no?  Yes, nothing is wrong with honest poverty, but it was depressing to see nonetheless...

Kathy, I didn't know that -- about your growing up in such an environment.  I guess when we are kids, such things don't really matter that much.

OT:  No, it didn't matter when I was a kid (though it did start to bother me as a teen).  In fact, our house was the one everyone wanted to hang out in, because it was free.  We got to draw on the walls, for instance!

kathy

[FlwrChild]

Totally OT: that was my house too Kathy, except for the drawing on the wall part. Everyone in the neighborhood wanted to hang out there. It wasn't til I got a little older that I started to feel self conscious about the condition, which to be fair was deteriorating over time.   Ok, done with that. Sorry for the OT. 

[orangetruck]

  Ok, I guess I’m just going at this from the point of view of a young mother. But how can this scene be meant to imply any inappropriate behavior on Alma’s part? At this time in the story, she has gone to work to help support her family because her husband refuses to get a better job and keeps quitting the ones he has when he needs to in order to spend time with Jack. As the exchange reveals, she had already told him previously that she had to work that evening, and has left dinner on the stove for Ennis and the girls. How can that possibly be considered ‘leaving him to fend for himself’?   I took this scene to be meant to show us their growing discontent as a couple and his inability to contain his unhappiness with his life in general. Sorry if my reaction seems strong Thomas , but as a young mother who knows just what goes into juggling these kinds of situations, I can’t see her as anything but sympathetic in this scene. The only thing I found unsympathetic here was Ennis going all Neanderthal on his working wife.  ^^) 

Because it had to be quoted. Wonderful post!   

[tpe]

  Ok, I guess I’m just going at this from the point of view of a young mother. But how can this scene be meant to imply any inappropriate behavior on Alma’s part? At this time in the story, she has gone to work to help support her family because her husband refuses to get a better job and keeps quitting the ones he has when he needs to in order to spend time with Jack. As the exchange reveals, she had already told him previously that she had to work that evening, and has left dinner on the stove for Ennis and the girls. How can that possibly be considered ‘leaving him to fend for himself’?   I took this scene to be meant to show us their growing discontent as a couple and his inability to contain his unhappiness with his life in general. Sorry if my reaction seems strong Thomas , but as a young mother who knows just what goes into juggling these kinds of situations, I can’t see her as anything but sympathetic in this scene. The only thing I found unsympathetic here was Ennis going all Neanderthal on his working wife.  ^^) 

I felt that she should have checked herself -- for the sake of the children.  I felt it must have been traumatic to expose the children to such a fight.  True, it was unbecoming to both of them.  But this did not make Alma look good as a mother.

[tpe]

OT:  No, it didn't matter when I was a kid (though it did start to bother me as a teen).  In fact, our house was the one everyone wanted to hang out in, because it was free.  We got to draw on the walls, for instance!

kathy

OT: I drew on the walls of my house once and got belted!

[LuvJackNasty]

I felt that she should have checked herself -- for the sake of the children.  I felt it must have been traumatic to expose the children to such a fight.  True, it was unbecoming to both of them.  But this did not make Alma look good as a mother.

Ennis should have checked himself as well. Didn't make him look good as a father, imo. Fighting is not good for the children and I grew up witnessing a lot worse than that so yeah I can agree on that. She was doing the best she could under the circumstances- the emotional trauma of living with being betrayed (and it wasn't one time- it was ongoing- no real opportunity to heal) and then having to pick up his slack in order to put food on the table for her children and keep a roof over their heads? She is a human being not a robot who can just check her emotions away. Again just my opinion.

[vedrana]

OT: I drew on the walls of my house once and got belted!

 

.. ha ha ha! You were such a good boy Tpe! Only once?

I got belted so many times but I was persistant not only in drawing on the walls, but in peeling wall papers and carving the furniture...  Oh, I go my share, but I enjoyed my little art works. To be honest -parents gave up first! 

[vedrana]

I felt that she should have checked herself -- for the sake of the children.  I felt it must have been traumatic to expose the children to such a fight.  True, it was unbecoming to both of them.  But this did not make Alma look good as a mother.

Well, it was an unpleasant scene by all means. But both of them - Ennis and Alma showed how little they cared for their relationship. And one thing that made this scene little more acceptable was Ennis's: What? Do you girls need pushing?" (or something like that..) That surely tamed the situation... and was even funny at last.