Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[BlueMountain]

.. ha ha ha! You were such a good boy Tpe! Only once?

I got belted so many times but I was persistant not only in drawing on the walls, but in peeling wall papers and carving the furniture...  Oh, I go my share, but I enjoyed my little art works. To be honest -parents gave up first! 

 

[FlwrChild]

I felt that she should have checked herself -- for the sake of the children.  I felt it must have been traumatic to expose the children to such a fight.  True, it was unbecoming to both of them.  But this did not make Alma look good as a mother.

Wow, I guess this is one of those times we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 

It is always unfortunate when children have to witness their parents fighting. I just don’t see how Alma ‘checking herself’ would necessarily have been the right thing to do in this instance, for them or for herself.

She was on her way to work. Ennis followed her out of the house yelling and swearing at her. She could have gone back inside and tried to reason with him out of the children's earshot, I suppose, but clearly he wasn’t in a mood to be reasoned with. As evidenced by his response to her telling him that she’d cooked them dinner and it was on the stove for them. And she had to get to work.

To me, her only options were to do exactly what she did (didn’t engage in the fight with him, just told him what her responsibility was and left) or to capitulate in order to placate him and avoid fighting in front of the kids. But what kind of message would that have sent to them? That it’s ok for a man to be abusive and overbearing to his wife? That she should submit to his will even when he’s being moody and unreasonable? I don’t think that would have been a good model for them. To me, it’s better to recognize that we all get upset sometimes and vent our frustrations, that we don’t always get along, even as adults, but that this too passes and helps us learn to rein in our tempers better the next time we’re faced with conflict. And that sometimes you do need to stand up for yourself.

She stated her case simply and firmly, didn’t relent when he lost his temper, and showed that she had faith in him to take care of the girls appropriately, even after he threatened not to feed them  if she didn’t stay to serve them all. Which shows the children, as well as Ennis, that she hasn’t allowed her frustration in that moment to alter her impressions of his measure as a father or his commitment to his daughters and ability to care for them.  When looked at in this light,  I’d say she made the best of an unfortunate situation.

So yes, it’s always unbecoming when adults behave like children in front of children but I just can’t agree that this exchange in any way makes Alma look bad as a mother.


Sorry for being so long-winded. I just couldn’t figure out how else to explain my impressions of this scene. Once again, I am struck by how differently we can interpret little moments in the movie and yet still share so many of the same overall impressions of the story and its characters. I love that it offers us such depth. 

[ksxks]

OT: I drew on the walls of my house once and got belted!

You poor thing...

I think it was awesome we got to draw on the walls.  In our rooms and in the basement, I'm talking about, not downstairs in the front room, etc.  (Not that the front room was Home & Garden either -- au contraire.)  Anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable, to let kids draw on the walls.  Just paint them every once in a while.  We had such a fun world in our house.

kathy

[ksxks]

Well, it was an unpleasant scene by all means. But both of them - Ennis and Alma showed how little they cared for their relationship. And one thing that made this scene little more acceptable was Ennis's: What? Do you girls need pushing?" (or something like that..) That surely tamed the situation... and was even funny at last.

Yes, Loreen -- I just LOVED that moment, "You girls need a push?"  It looked like the girls weren't outwardly freaked out by their parents fighting, so it probably went on from time to time.  Neither Ennis nor Alma could be expected to always quell their anger for the girls' sake.  It's terrible for kids...but a fact of life in so many cases.  They seemed to not have turned out overly neurotic or messed up as they grew older, though we really don't see their most deep inner selves later.

kathy

[ksxks]

Wow, I guess this is one of those times we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 

It is always unfortunate when children have to witness their parents fighting. I just don’t see how Alma ‘checking herself’ would necessarily have been the right thing to do in this instance, for them or for herself.

She was on her way to work. Ennis followed her out of the house yelling and swearing at her. She could have gone back inside and tried to reason with him out of the children's earshot, I suppose, but clearly he wasn’t in a mood to be reasoned with. As evidenced by his response to her telling him that she’d cooked them dinner and it was on the stove for them. And she had to get to work.

To me, her only options were to do exactly what she did (didn’t engage in the fight with him, just told him what her responsibility was and left) or to capitulate in order to placate him and avoid fighting in front of the kids. But what kind of message would that have sent to them? That it’s ok for a man to be abusive and overbearing to his wife? That she should submit to his will even when he’s being moody and unreasonable? I don’t think that would have been a good model for them. To me, it’s better to recognize that we all get upset sometimes and vent our frustrations, that we don’t always get along, even as adults, but that this too passes and helps us learn to rein in our tempers better the next time we’re faced with conflict. And that sometimes you do need to stand up for yourself.

She stated her case simply and firmly, didn’t relent when he lost his temper, and showed that she had faith in him to take care of the girls appropriately, even after he threatened not to feed them  if she didn’t stay to serve them all. Which shows the children, as well as Ennis, that she hasn’t allowed her frustration in that moment to alter her impressions of his measure as a father or his commitment to his daughters and ability to care for them.  When looked at in this light,  I’d say she made the best of an unfortunate situation.

So yes, it’s always unbecoming when adults behave like children in front of children but I just can’t agree that this exchange in any way makes Alma look bad as a mother.


Sorry for being so long-winded. I just couldn’t figure out how else to explain my impressions of this scene. Once again, I am struck by how differently we can interpret little moments in the movie and yet still share so many of the same overall impressions of the story and its characters. I love that it offers us such depth. 

Perfectly well said, Barb.  Obviously, Ennis was the one being unreasonable and just being a jerk, and Alma managed to maintain her dignity under the circumstances and without overtly degrading Ennis.  And as I just said, the girls weren't freaked out and cowering or anything...

kathy

[tpe]

Ennis should have checked himself as well. Didn't make him look good as a father, imo. Fighting is not good for the children and I grew up witnessing a lot worse than that so yeah I can agree on that. She was doing the best she could under the circumstances- the emotional trauma of living with being betrayed (and it wasn't one time- it was ongoing- no real opportunity to heal) and then having to pick up his slack in order to put food on the table for her children and keep a roof over their heads? She is a human being not a robot who can just check her emotions away. Again just my opinion.

This is true.  Both of them should have checked themselves.  But it does not mitigate Alma's fault, especially when serving dinner to her children should have been more important to her than her fight with Ennis.  Again, the same can be said about Ennis, but it no way mitigates the fault of either one.

Lastly, we should remember the context of the society portrayed.  It was a society that puts the husband above the wife, and in this context, the fight was more a loss of face to Ennis than it was to Alma -- especially with the children.

[tpe]

Wow, I guess this is one of those times we’ll just have to agree to disagree. 

It is always unfortunate when children have to witness their parents fighting. I just don’t see how Alma ‘checking herself’ would necessarily have been the right thing to do in this instance, for them or for herself.

She was on her way to work. Ennis followed her out of the house yelling and swearing at her. She could have gone back inside and tried to reason with him out of the children's earshot, I suppose, but clearly he wasn’t in a mood to be reasoned with. As evidenced by his response to her telling him that she’d cooked them dinner and it was on the stove for them. And she had to get to work.

To me, her only options were to do exactly what she did (didn’t engage in the fight with him, just told him what her responsibility was and left) or to capitulate in order to placate him and avoid fighting in front of the kids. But what kind of message would that have sent to them? That it’s ok for a man to be abusive and overbearing to his wife? That she should submit to his will even when he’s being moody and unreasonable? I don’t think that would have been a good model for them. To me, it’s better to recognize that we all get upset sometimes and vent our frustrations, that we don’t always get along, even as adults, but that this too passes and helps us learn to rein in our tempers better the next time we’re faced with conflict. And that sometimes you do need to stand up for yourself.

She stated her case simply and firmly, didn’t relent when he lost his temper, and showed that she had faith in him to take care of the girls appropriately, even after he threatened not to feed them  if she didn’t stay to serve them all. Which shows the children, as well as Ennis, that she hasn’t allowed her frustration in that moment to alter her impressions of his measure as a father or his commitment to his daughters and ability to care for them.  When looked at in this light,  I’d say she made the best of an unfortunate situation.

So yes, it’s always unbecoming when adults behave like children in front of children but I just can’t agree that this exchange in any way makes Alma look bad as a mother.


Sorry for being so long-winded. I just couldn’t figure out how else to explain my impressions of this scene. Once again, I am struck by how differently we can interpret little moments in the movie and yet still share so many of the same overall impressions of the story and its characters. I love that it offers us such depth. 

Well, we can certainly agree to disagree here. 

I cannot help feel that it was a deliberate attempt on Alma's part to flaunt her disregard for Ennis's "authority" in front of her children (again, given the context of that society).  It makes sense in the flow of events, because I think the intention of the film-makers was to show this as a way of her "getting back" at Ennis for the betrayal.  As in all cases, a wrong does not make a right. 

[tpe]

Well, it was an unpleasant scene by all means. But both of them - Ennis and Alma showed how little they cared for their relationship. And one thing that made this scene little more acceptable was Ennis's: What? Do you girls need pushing?" (or something like that..) That surely tamed the situation... and was even funny at last.

Yes, I was about to say this, but saw that you had already cited it.  The fact that we see Ennis asking them that question showed that he at least tried to mitigate things (although his kicking the bucket after that didn't exactly help the situation.  )  Perhaps Alma would have done the same, but we never see her do this.  Hence, I do admit that this made me feel "better" about Ennis. 

[tpe]

Perfectly well said, Barb.  Obviously, Ennis was the one being unreasonable and just being a jerk, and Alma managed to maintain her dignity under the circumstances and without overtly degrading Ennis.  And as I just said, the girls weren't freaked out and cowering or anything...

kathy

You know, the way they protrayed the girls in this scene made me feel that this was not the first time they had seen such fights.  We see this again after Ennis asks them a question.  And we see this again when we see their nonchalance after Ennis kicks the bucket.

Hence, I interpret the girls' nonchalance to a desensitization, rather than anything else.  It wasn't that they were undisturbed by it -- rather, they were used to it and had developed mechanisms to shut them out.

[vedrana]

I believe that the way he was treating his daughters all his life made them love him so much and look upon him as a hero. Despite the very unfortunate situation in their family girls turn up to be very normal and lovely persons. His love was a big part of that success. I especially liked their behaviour during Thanksgiving, they were such a cuties. And they adored him! 

[aintfoolin]

You know, the way they protrayed the girls in this scene made me feel that this was not the first time they had seen such fights.  We see this again after Ennis asks them a question.  And we see this again when we see their nonchalance after Ennis kicks the bucket.

Hence, I interpret the girls' nonchalance to a desensitization, rather than anything else.  It wasn't that they were undisturbed by it -- rather, they were used to it and had developed mechanisms to shut them out.

 I also think that this was not the first time the girls had seen this type of fight between their parents. Ennis had a temper. With the shadow of the affair with Jack hanging over the marriage like a dark cloud, Ennis's growing resentment towards Alma because she was'nt Jack, and her growing resentment towards Ennis for feeling he can still "fool her" about the fishing trips. There is always an underlying , unspoken reason for this kind of altercation between married couples. She could'nt speak of it, neither could he. Perhaps she found an escape from it all at work....besides, at work Monroe offered a alternative to the tension. 

[ksxks]

You know, the way they protrayed the girls in this scene made me feel that this was not the first time they had seen such fights.  We see this again after Ennis asks them a question.  And we see this again when we see their nonchalance after Ennis kicks the bucket.

Hence, I interpret the girls' nonchalance to a desensitization, rather than anything else.  It wasn't that they were undisturbed by it -- rather, they were used to it and had developed mechanisms to shut them out.

That is what I meant to say, Thomas, that the girls were used to it.  Not that it didn't bother them inside, as of course it did.  But they were desensitized, as you said, and their being disturbed wasn't shown overtly.

kathy

[ksxks]

This is true.  Both of them should have checked themselves.  But it does not mitigate Alma's fault, especially when serving dinner to her children should have been more important to her than her fight with Ennis.  Again, the same can be said about Ennis, but it no way mitigates the fault of either one.

Lastly, we should remember the context of the society portrayed.  It was a society that puts the husband above the wife, and in this context, the fight was more a loss of face to Ennis than it was to Alma -- especially with the children.

But serving dinner to the girls wasn't more important than her going to her necessary job!  When Ennis could do it just as well.  Even in the context of the times.

kathy

[tpe]

I also think that this was not the first time the girls had seen this type of fight between their parents. Ennis had a temper. With the shadow of the affair with Jack hanging over the marriage like a dark cloud, Ennis's growing resentment towards Alma because she was'nt Jack, and her growing resentment towards Ennis for feeling he can still "fool her" about the fishing trips. There is always an underlying , unspoken reason for this kind of altercation between married couples. She could'nt speak of it, neither could he. Perhaps she found an escape from it all at work....besides, at work Monroe offered a alternative to the tension. 

I would say that after the Reunion, both Ennis and Alma were not about ready for playing it softly.  I think both of them were the type of people that exhibited explosive anger -- i.e., they allowed their anger to build up until it can no longer be contained.  So I assume that the girls were exposed to these very dramatic confrontations. 

And yes, I feel that work had become a sort of refuge for Alma, even as she understood that she now had to earn more money than Ennis in order to keep up with the bills.  Some people have speculated that at this time, she had perhaps began an affair with Monroe.  Possible, but uncertain, to be sure...

[tpe]

But serving dinner to the girls wasn't more important than her going to her necessary job!  When Ennis could do it just as well.  Even in the context of the times.

kathy

But was the job really more important?  I question this.  In fact, this is exactly the same fault we blame Ennis -- making his job an excuse to push back Alma, the girls, AND Jack.  For example, was Ennis crazy to have dropped his job to attend Alma Jr.'s wedding?  Granted, a wedding is more "important" than a dinner, but both symbolize the same level of prioritization and Ennis's shift after Jack's death.

Hence, if we don't spare Ennis for this same fault, I don't see why we have to spare Alma. 

 

[tpe]

I believe that the way he was treating his daughters all his life made them love him so much and look upon him as a hero. Despite the very unfortunate situation in their family girls turn up to be very normal and lovely persons. His love was a big part of that success. I especially liked their behaviour during Thanksgiving, they were such a cuties. And they adored him! 

But we should also note that even Ennis held back even with his girls -- it was part of his own fears, and when we see him do this, it can be quite distasteful.

I for one am uncomfortable when Alma Jr. asks Ennis if she could live with him  and Ennis responds with an evasive no.  KIt really shows that for all his love for his daughters, he spent most of his life trying to keep a part of him apart from them.  This is sad.

The hope is that Jack's death made him realize this fault, and we see him in the end trying to make amends.

[vedrana]

And yes, I feel that work had become a sort of refuge for Alma, even as she understood that she now had to earn more money than Ennis in order to keep up with the bills.  Some people have speculated that at this time, she had perhaps began an affair with Monroe.  Possible, but uncertain, to be sure...

I have to admit that I find very difficult for anyone to have "an affair" with Monroe... 

He strikes me as a man whom woman would chose only to "keep up with the bills" as you said. This is an ugly thing to say, but after ENNIS to have an affair with MONROE??!! Yes, sure! But only to ensure financial and other safety for family! And I wouldn't call it "an afair", rather "escape"...

[vedrana]

But we should also note that even Ennis held back even with his girls -- it was part of his own fears, and when we see him do this, it can be quite distasteful.

I for one am uncomfortable when Alma Jr. asks Ennis if she could live with him  and Ennis responds with an evasive no.  KIt really shows that for all his love for his daughters, he spent most of his life trying to keep a part of him apart from them.  This is sad.

The hope is that Jack's death made him realize this fault, and we see him in the end trying to make amends.

Ennis's whole life was about control and distance from others in order to keep that control. When he refused Junior, maybe it was evasive, but he look at her with so apologizing look and love, that it made it acceptable for me. And I didn't think that it would be so good choice for her.

Of course the main reason for the rejection was his developed capability to avoid people. Only in that way he could preserve the piece of his inner peace. At least he believed so!

I think that he deeply loved his daughters though! 

[tpe]

Ennis's whole life was about control and distance from others in order to keep that control. When he refused Junior, maybe it was evasive, but he look at her with so apologizing look and love, that it made it acceptable for me. And I didn't think that it would be so good choice for her.

Of course the main reason for the rejection was his developed capability to avoid people. Only in that way he could preserve the piece of his inner peace. At least he believed so!

I think that he deeply loved his daughters though! 

What made that scne painful to watch was that in spite of Ennis's very apologetic look, we can tell that Alma Jr. was VERY disappointed -- slamming the trcuk door and not looking back.

Also painful to watch was Alam Jr's face when Ennis first tells her in the Trailer scene that he had to be up in the Tenons for the roundup at the time the wedding was scheduled.  What saved the scene was the dramatic change in Jr.'s face after Ennis changed his mind! 

[FlwrChild]

Well, we can certainly agree to disagree here. 

I cannot help feel that it was a deliberate attempt on Alma's part to flaunt her disregard for Ennis's "authority" in front of her children (again, given the context of that society).  It makes sense in the flow of events, because I think the intention of the film-makers was to show this as a way of her "getting back" at Ennis for the betrayal.  As in all cases, a wrong does not make a right. 

I see this scene very differently myself. First, I don't think it was a deliberate attempt at all by Alma to do anything other than go to work, preferably without being berated for it by the husband who makes it necessary for her to get a job in the first place and then harasses her for it. Second, I never thought Ang Lee was trying to show this as an attempt to "get back at" Ennis for anything. I just saw it as a way to show that Alma was losing her patience with both Ennis' behavior and her role in this marriage, and was finally starting to show some of her frustrations. That’s all. I can’t think of any reason why Alma would make a deliberate effort to flaunt her disregard for Ennis’ authority in front of the children.  I’m not even sure I think she had a disregard for his authority. I guess I also sort of think that ascribing a lot of ulterior motives to their behaviors is giving both of them credit for being much more analytical and insightful than I think either of them were. Alma wasn't planning anything here and neither was Ennis. She was trying to go to work. He was feeling frustrated or out of sorts (for whatever reason) and lashed out at her. That’s all I saw.

Yes, I was about to say this, but saw that you had already cited it.  The fact that we see Ennis asking them that question showed that he at least tried to mitigate things (although his kicking the bucket after that didn't exactly help the situation.  )  Perhaps Alma would have done the same, but we never see her do this.  Hence, I do admit that this made me feel "better" about Ennis. 

I think that for both of us, our initial impressions of this scene have shaped the way we see all of the different elements in it. Because again, it looked a little different to me. I saw Ennis turn away from a heated exchange with his wife (during which time neither of them were taking note of the children’s presence) and register that his girls were sitting on the swings looking at him. Now shifting back into the moment with his kids, he gruffly asks them if they need a push. Once they say no, he turns and kicks at the bucket in frustration and then walks away. He is obviously still in his frustration zone. If he were really trying to mitigate anything, he would have taken a deep breath, given them a smile, and paid some attention to them. It wasn’t Alma’s responsibility to do so in this case because she had to go. We have no way of knowing what her response might have been if she’d been the parent that stayed after the argument. Please understand that I’m not trying to criticize Ennis here. I just think that we’re looking at two people, who weren’t very sophisticated, doing the best they could with what they were given in life. Unfortunately for Alma, she was as much a victim of Ennis’ oppression as he was. Society wasn’t kind to either of them. But as far as I could see from the small glimpses Ang Lee gave us into her character, including this one, she rose to meet her circumstances with as much dignity as anyone could expect of her.

But serving dinner to the girls wasn't more important than her going to her necessary job!  When Ennis could do it just as well.  Even in the context of the times.

kathy

But was the job really more important?  I question this.  In fact, this is exactly the same fault we blame Ennis -- making his job an excuse to push back Alma, the girls, AND Jack.  For example, was Ennis crazy to have dropped his job to attend Alma Jr.'s wedding?  Granted, a wedding is more "important" than a dinner, but both symbolize the same level of prioritization and Ennis's shift after Jack's death.

Hence, if we don't spare Ennis for this same fault, I don't see why we have to spare Alma. 

 

Well here we’re just arguing different points, not actually disagreeing. Because serving the girls dinner has nothing to do with Alma’s priorities or her job in the context of this scene. She isn’t choosing work over feeding her family. In fact, she’d already cooked their dinner. All Ennis had to do was put it on a plate and set it on the table for them. I don’t mean to sound argumentative but to me we’re adding an element to the mix that just isn’t there. If we’re saying that Alma should choose to take care of her children over going to work, even if she needs this job to provide for her family, then we should be looking at a time when she made a choice between the two. That’s not the case here. She fed her family and she went to work, which means she covered both responsibilities. All Ennis had to do was be present with his kids for the evening. I’m sure my bias is showing here. Even now, in 2008, it makes me nuts that so many people still say that when women are taking care of their kids, they’re being a mother but when men take care of their kids, they’re ’babysitting.’ Um…no. When you take care of someone else’s kids, you’re babysitting. When you take care of your own kids, you’re parenting. Imo, it wasn’t unreasonable to expect this of Ennis, even in that era. 

[tpe]

I see this scene very differently myself. First, I don't think it was a deliberate attempt at all by Alma to do anything other than go to work, preferably without being berated for it by the husband who makes it necessary for her to get a job in the first place and then harasses her for it. Second, I never thought Ang Lee was trying to show this as an attempt to "get back at" Ennis for anything. I just saw it as a way to show that Alma was losing her patience with both Ennis' behavior and her role in this marriage, and was finally starting to show some of her frustrations. That’s all. I can’t think of any reason why Alma would make a deliberate effort to flaunt her disregard for Ennis’ authority in front of the children.  I’m not even sure I think she had a disregard for his authority. I guess I also sort of think that ascribing a lot of ulterior motives to their behaviors is giving both of them credit for being much more analytical and insightful than I think either of them were. Alma wasn't planning anything here and neither was Ennis. She was trying to go to work. He was feeling frustrated or out of sorts (for whatever reason) and lashed out at her. That’s all I saw.

I think that for both of us, our initial impressions of this scene have shaped the way we see all of the different elements in it. Because again, it looked a little different to me. I saw Ennis turn away from a heated exchange with his wife (during which time neither of them were taking note of the children’s presence) and register that his girls were sitting on the swings looking at him. Now shifting back into the moment with his kids, he gruffly asks them if they need a push. Once they say no, he turns and kicks at the bucket in frustration and then walks away. He is obviously still in his frustration zone. If he were really trying to mitigate anything, he would have taken a deep breath, given them a smile, and paid some attention to them. It wasn’t Alma’s responsibility to do so in this case because she had to go. We have no way of knowing what her response might have been if she’d been the parent that stayed after the argument. Please understand that I’m not trying to criticize Ennis here. I just think that we’re looking at two people, who weren’t very sophisticated, doing the best they could with what they were given in life. Unfortunately for Alma, she was as much a victim of Ennis’ oppression as he was. Society wasn’t kind to either of them. But as far as I could see from the small glimpses Ang Lee gave us into her character, including this one, she rose to meet her circumstances with as much dignity as anyone could expect of her.

 

Quite interesting!  It amazes me how much our perceptions can differ...  Surely a testament to how the director draws out very personal feelings from each of us.

Well here we’re just arguing different points, not actually disagreeing. Because serving the girls dinner has nothing to do with Alma’s priorities or her job in the context of this scene. She isn’t choosing work over feeding her family. In fact, she’d already cooked their dinner. All Ennis had to do was put it on a plate and set it on the table for them. I don’t mean to sound argumentative but to me we’re adding an element to the mix that just isn’t there. If we’re saying that Alma should choose to take care of her children over going to work, even if she needs this job to provide for her family, then we should be looking at a time when she made a choice between the two. That’s not the case here. She fed her family and she went to work, which means she covered both responsibilities. All Ennis had to do was be present with his kids for the evening. I’m sure my bias is showing here. Even now, in 2008, it makes me nuts that so many people still say that when women are taking care of their kids, they’re being a mother but when men take care of their kids, they’re ’babysitting.’ Um…no. When you take care of someone else’s kids, you’re babysitting. When you take care of your own kids, you’re parenting. Imo, it wasn’t unreasonable to expect this of Ennis, even in that era. 

Well, we can disgree on the details, then.    I think that implicit in all this is that Alma had always served them dinner prior to this, and that I am sure this was not the first time she had to work at an odd time and that in the past, she had always managed to do so without conflicts.  Again, this goes back to my belief that all this was deliberate.    For me, she was deliberately chosing work over feeding her family, in order to make a point with Ennis -- and for the director to show Alma's growing independence and contempt for her husband.

[vedrana]

Well, we can disgree on the details, then.    I think that implicit in all this is that Alma had always served them dinner prior to this, and that I am sure this was not the first time she had to work at an odd time and that in the past, she had always managed to do so without conflicts.  Again, this goes back to my belief that all this was deliberate.    For me, she was deliberately chosing work over feeding her family, in order to make a point with Ennis -- and for the director to show Alma's growing independence and contempt for her husband.

Among the other things in this scene which were already disscused, I believe that this point can be very true!

[tpe]

Among the other things in this scene which were already disscused, I believe that this point can be very true!

Well, it is an opinion.    Interesting to see that it is not shared by others...

[myprivatejack]

I think it had arrived a point in Ennis/Alma relationship in which everything was taken as a "tour de force" between them.In this case,it was who would serve dinner or not,but it would be whatever of the many details of householding after or before.The main point of all this is that their marriage was breaking little by little,and every little detail already became an struggle.With a better intention,Alma would have served the dinner,as I guess she had done before so many times,or,if times flied too fast for her,Ennis would have served so that she could be less in a hurry...But good intentions were at that point very far from this couple.

[tpe]

I think it had arrived a point in Ennis/Alma relationship in which everything was taken as a "tour de force" between them.In this case,it was who would serve dinner or not,but it would be whatever of the many details of householding after or before.The main point of all this is that their marriage was breaking little by little,and every little detail already became an struggle.With a better intention,Alma would have served the dinner,as I guess she had done before so many times,or,if times flied too fast for her,Ennis would have served so that she could be less in a hurry...But good intentions were at that point very far from this couple.

This is true.  No matter how we feel for any of the characters (i.e., sympathy or a lack thereof) to see the deterioration of their marriage is quite depressing. And even after the marriage (i.e., thr Thanksgiving scene) we get no respite.

 

[vedrana]

There's another scene with Alma I dislike - the moment when she caught them during the reunion kiss. Between two engaging scenes of Ennis's and Jack's reunion where we exhaled, there's short part where shocked Alma enters the kitchen.

I admire Michelle W. for this scene. She was perfect by all means! First walking quickly as she wants to run away from the sight of her husband kissing a man, and then in the kitchen she just lost all her strength, looked like she was going to faint, moving unnaturally slow. Very good acting indeed! But I don't like the scene, just because Alma was a second Aguirre  , a person who spoiled the beauty of Ennis's and Jack's love.(Even she was more that entitled to do it ).

I have to admit that I don't understand why Alma put her beg on the shoulder... as if she wants to go out? Knife&fork? 

[aintfoolin]

I feel the bag on her sholder was just an total unconcious nervous gesture on her part. Alma was still in shock, like she had just been punched in the stomach. She knew she was'nt invited to the party after what she'd witnessed. She also needed a smoke, though I never pictured her as a smoker. In any case, Ennis had that covered too. Asking him to  bring her back a pack of cigarettes was just an effort to bring Ennis back home sooner,... no such luck...

[vedrana]

I feel the bag on her sholder was just an total unconcious nervous gesture on her part. Alma was still in shock, like she had just been punched in the stomach. She knew she was'nt invited to the party after what she'd witnessed. She also needed a smoke, though I never pictured her as a smoker. In any case, Ennis had that covered too. Asking him to  bring her back a pack of cigarettes was just an effort to bring Ennis back home sooner,... no such luck...

 
AF, you gave me a naughty idea here. 

 

But, yes, it was probably unconscious.. can't think of nothing else.

[LuvJackNasty]

I feel the bag on her sholder was just an total unconcious nervous gesture on her part. Alma was still in shock, like she had just been punched in the stomach. She knew she was'nt invited to the party after what she'd witnessed. She also needed a smoke, though I never pictured her as a smoker. In any case, Ennis had that covered too. Asking him to  bring her back a pack of cigarettes was just an effort to bring Ennis back home sooner,... no such luck...

Absolutely and well said. 

[tpe]

There's another scene with Alma I dislike - the moment when she caught them during the reunion kiss. Between two engaging scenes of Ennis's and Jack's reunion where we exhaled, there's short part where shocked Alma enters the kitchen.

I admire Michelle W. for this scene. She was perfect by all means! First walking quickly as she wants to run away from the sight of her husband kissing a man, and then in the kitchen she just lost all her strength, looked like she was going to faint, moving unnaturally slow. Very good acting indeed! But I don't like the scene, just because Alma was a second Aguirre  , a person who spoiled the beauty of Ennis's and Jack's love.(Even she was more that entitled to do it ).

I have to admit that I don't understand why Alma put her beg on the shoulder... as if she wants to go out? Knife&fork? 

Her acting in this very scene was so full of nuance.  Again, it is one of the great scenes where not a single word was really said.  The greatness of this scene can be measured by our very reaction to it -- of how it disturbs and elates us at the same time.