Topic: What is the scene you dislike the most? (spoiler)

[myprivatejack]

You're so right here! 

The LF scene was highly unpleasant! But I believe that (as this phenomena is known in medicine) Ennis and Jack's Ma will establish a special relationship in the future! They'll nurture each other's soul as they both share the same thing - deep love and unfortunate lost of the essence of their lives - Jack!

You're so right,Loreenˇ   I think this is what makes this scene fairly more bearable,no?; to see how Ennis and Mrs. Twist will relieve and help each other to overcome the lost of the person they had love the most.What's more,it seems to me that,from that very moment onwards,she will be the mother Ennis hardly could remember and he will be,somehow,another son for her.

[vedrana]

You're so right,Loreenˇ   I think this is what makes this scene fairly more bearable,no?; to see how Ennis and Mrs. Twist will relieve and help each other to overcome the lost of the person they had love the most.What's more,it seems to me that,from that very moment onwards,she will be the mother Ennis hardly could remember and he will be,somehow,another son for her.

 

 MPJ for this! That sounds so comforting!

[atalley]

Yes, as unpleasant as it was to have to see Jack's dad, it was worth it all to see the love from his mom.  I loved her the 1st time I saw her, & I think that Ennis understood that she accepted him.  I also wish that she could've gave Ennis at least a few of Jack's ashes, but I'm sure she was afraid of him.

[myprivatejack]

 MPJ for this! That sounds so comforting!

Oh,you don't need to thank me,hun;i've said what I feelˇ.   Yes,I think it's comforting for both of them to live and for all of us to watch;the same than we get some comfort in seeing how Ennis comes to terms with Jack's love and vicerversa,as a kind of relief for his lost.

[ksxks]

Wonderful acting here!  I think her suffering made the scenes in LF even more unpleasant.  And the fact that she and Ennis couldn't express themselves fully in from of John Twist was maddening.

That would be incredible, if we could see Ennis and Ma Twist alone together, without the old man.  What a scene that might have been.  As it was, it was so restrained...yet it spoke so loudly!

kathy

[vedrana]

That would be incredible, if we could see Ennis and Ma Twist alone together, without the old man.  What a scene that might have been.  As it was, it was so restrained...yet it spoke so loudly!

kathy

Oh, yes Kathy! 

That would be a moment to remember! Very good point! 

[smartestsonia]

There's one scene I've been thinking about, that makes me very uncomfortable. That is when Jack came to see Ennis, so happy, so full of expectations... Ennis just introduced him to his daughters and sent him away...

I can not understand this kind of behaviour. Someone drives 14 hours to see you, and you don't even give him a glass of water??  
I noticed Ennis's head down after Jack left, but why let him go so quickly anyway?

Was is possible to go out together with girls? To sit and to talk something, neutrally?

Also, who was in the white truck that was driving on the road? Why E&J looked at the truck so significantly?  

I know that people say that 3 things one can never hide: cough, poverty and love... maybe Ennis was afraid that his love would be so obvious???

I don't know, but I felt so much for Jack there. Even so humiliated he preserves his pride and just said: OK, see you next month! Dear Jack!

Another scene I dislike - him with a male prostitute ( )... When they went into the darkness, camera just stayed there with a Mexican music in background in order to amplify the effect of Jack's despair!  :\'( :\'( (Good job Lee!)

I agree Loreen…Long time back I had mentioned not liking this scene too…Jack drove for 14 long hours to meet Ennis…He was happy as Ennis was divorced as that increased his hopes for them to live together…It was his greatest dream or rather only dream...When he met Ennis he wanted to spend time with him, hold him, kiss him and just be with him and Ennis did not let that happen...Its obvious that Ennis was too scared that his daughters would see his love for Jack or someone around will to see it..and so he tells Jack that he cant make it..

Jack’s facial expression and the movement of his tongues makes me get chills down my spine..i am so hurt to his him hurting so much..God..it gets hard..For a moment am a little angry at Ennis for doing that to Jack but the next moment I feel sorry for Ennis as he is a victim of his fears..He is scared to be called “queer”,,he is scared that his family will think ill about him…he has so many fears and so is not able to just follow is heart..My heart goes out to both of them as they both r struggling and suffering their miseries :\'( :\'(

[vedrana]

I agree Loreen…Long time back I had mentioned not liking this scene too…Jack drove for 14 long hours to meet Ennis…He was happy as Ennis was divorced as that increased his hopes for them to live together…It was his greatest dream or rather only dream...When he met Ennis he wanted to spend time with him, hold him, kiss him and just be with him and Ennis did not let that happen...Its obvious that Ennis was too scared that his daughters would see his love for Jack or someone around will to see it..and so he tells Jack that he cant make it..

Jack’s facial expression and the movement of his tongues makes me get chills down my spine..i am so hurt to his him hurting so much..God..it gets hard..For a moment am a little angry at Ennis for doing that to Jack but the next moment I feel sorry for Ennis as he is a victim of his fears..He is scared to be called “queer”,,he is scared that his family will think ill about him…he has so many fears and so is not able to just follow is heart..My heart goes out to both of them as they both r struggling and suffering their miseries :\'( :\'(

Dear Cleo, we often feel the same! 

That scene is so despaering for Jack, so heartbreaking...

I think that's possible that Ennis never understood the power of their mutual feelings! Until the moment he found the shirts in the hidden conmpartment, he thought about their relationship as of "this thing". And I believe that the shirts were the breaking point - for him and for me! I broke there too!  :\'(  :\'(  :\'(

[smartestsonia]

Dear Cleo,
 

I know that u are, and I am very grateful that I have a place to heal my wounds. It gets easier sometimes, but mostly i am not myself anymore. I know it's wrong - a movie should not kill one, but BBM is on the right way to do that to me. I'll have to find a way to breathe, to be me again, with no Ennis& Jack in my life. I'll just have to put them in some small pocket of my heart, where they'd do no such a harm as now! I told you that I got a medical situation cause BBM, and that shows how serious this situation had become for me!

Dear Loreen,
Please take good care of yourself..…I can very well feel your pain ….I have also been depressed before…I know life is not the same after BBM but I am sure that there is so much love here that u will heal your wounds… We have all found true meaning in life from BBM…BBM teaches us the strong force of love and how much important it is in life…I will never ever forget that….I will always have the love for Ennis and Jack alive in my heart and will cherish that forever....They have taught me a lot..

Being a very positive person by nature I have found meaning in all these miseries…I think that even death cant destroy their love..Ennis lived his life with Jack as his angel....Jack is always there and will never leave Ennis's side..What can be more pure than that ?...Nothing else…

[vedrana]

Being a very positive person by nature I have found meaning in all these miseries…I think that even death cant destroy their love..Ennis lived his life with Jack as his angel....Jack is always there and will never leave Ennis's side..What can be more pure than that ?...Nothing else…

 

 

 

[cnr1949]

There's only one scene that bothered me, and that was the one near the beginning showing the railway train passing through town - it was ok for a railfan like myself until I saw there was no caboose - big boo-boo - in that era all freight trains dragged a caboose or crummy or van, whatever you want to call it.

I was surprised that one of the editors didn't catch that. They could have cut the scene just before the end of the train came into view - on the other hand, perhaps it had significance in that there seems to be no end to these miserable stories of discrimination and hiding in the closet and families torn apart because gay and lesbian people are under so much pressure to marry heterosexually.

[tpe]

You're so right here! 

The LF scene was highly unpleasant! But I believe that (as this phenomena is known in medicine) Ennis and Jack's Ma will establish a special relationship in the future! They'll nurture each other's soul as they both share the same thing - deep love and unfortunate lost of the essence of their lives - Jack!

That would be incredible, if we could see Ennis and Ma Twist alone together, without the old man.  What a scene that might have been.  As it was, it was so restrained...yet it spoke so loudly!

kathy

I want to think that the invitation Mrs. Twist extended to te departing Ennis would sooner or later be accepted.  But in the two years between that and Alma Jr.'s wedding, it would seem that Ennis kept to himself entirely.  Is this evidence that the LF episode was kind of traumatic for Ennis?  Still, I would like to think that inevitably, Ennis would re-establish contact with Mrs. Twist.  Perhaps this is only wishful thinking on my part -- to give the scenes in LF an extended meaning, and not make it look hopeless and unpleasant.

[tpe]

There's only one scene that bothered me, and that was the one near the beginning showing the railway train passing through town - it was ok for a railfan like myself until I saw there was no caboose - big boo-boo - in that era all freight trains dragged a caboose or crummy or van, whatever you want to call it.

I was surprised that one of the editors didn't catch that. They could have cut the scene just before the end of the train came into view - on the other hand, perhaps it had significance in that there seems to be no end to these miserable stories of discrimination and hiding in the closet and families torn apart because gay and lesbian people are under so much pressure to marry heterosexually.

Welcome to the forum, cnr1949.

Very interesting and insightful.  I don't know if there is any intended symbolism here.  Because BBM was filmed with a relatively tight budget, it is not surprising that goofs and editing flaws have been noted.  But this is a particularly interesting point.  Did you check it this error had been reported on IMDB?

[vedrana]

I want to think that the invitation Mrs. Twist extended to te departing Ennis would sooner or later be accepted.  But in the two years between that and Alma Jr.'s wedding, it would seem that Ennis kept to himself entirely.  Is this evidence that the LF episode was kind of traumatic for Ennis?  Still, I would like to think that inevitably, Ennis would re-establish contact with Mrs. Twist.  Perhaps this is only wishful thinking on my part -- to give the scenes in LF an extended meaning, and not make it look hopeless and unpleasant.

I have to addmit that I did not figure out that there is a 2 year gap between LF episode and Junior's wedding. How do you know this... I can't count it clearly...

IMO, should be a little while after LF episode ...

Please, help!

PS: I believe that LF scene has it extention... Ii just has to! ^^)   

[tpe]

I have to addmit that I did not figure out that there is a 2 year gap between LF episode and Junior's wedding. How do you know this... I can't count it clearly...

IMO, should be a little while after LF episode ...

Please, help!

We know it first from the screenplay, where the dates indicate a 2 year lapse.  This is supported by the dialog, where it was clear that Ennis had not seen Jr. for two years.

[vedrana]

We know it first from the screenplay, where the dates indicate a 2 year lapse.  This is supported by the dialog, where it was clear that Ennis had not seen Jr. for two years.

Well, I'll check it again, because I have to admit that by the end of the movie my feelings become too much for me, and I see only pain and sorrow, paying not so much attention to the details. I even skip some difficult parts!  :\'(

 

[tpe]

Well, I'll check it again, because I have to admit that by the end of the movie my feelings become too much for me, and I see only pain and sorrow, paying not so much attention to the details. I even skip some difficult parts!  :\'(

 

loreen, there is even some controversy about the timings in the last scenes.  Look at several threads posted about the Timings in the Last Scenes.  It may be several pages behind now, as they are old.  Look also at the index thread. 

[BlueMountain]

I can watch the first half but I cant go on when all the drama starts... I have only watched the movie fully once... If I ever do watch it again, then I hope it will be with a Brokie!

[vedrana]

I can watch the first half but I cant go on when all the drama starts... I have only watched the movie fully once... If I ever do watch it again, then I hope it will be with a Brokie!

I understand! Oh, how I do!  I often rewind some difficult parts too...  :\'(

... but always repeat SNIT and reunion kiss!

[perarduaadastra]

I can watch the first half but I cant go on when all the drama starts... I have only watched the movie fully once... If I ever do watch it again, then I hope it will be with a Brokie!

The movie falls into two parts, the first when they are together alone on the mountain ,up above and away from the rest of the world. The second when they come down and other people make things complicated and difficult. I stop the DVD half way through too.

[ksxks]

There's only one scene that bothered me, and that was the one near the beginning showing the railway train passing through town - it was ok for a railfan like myself until I saw there was no caboose - big boo-boo - in that era all freight trains dragged a caboose or crummy or van, whatever you want to call it.

I was surprised that one of the editors didn't catch that. They could have cut the scene just before the end of the train came into view - on the other hand, perhaps it had significance in that there seems to be no end to these miserable stories of discrimination and hiding in the closet and families torn apart because gay and lesbian people are under so much pressure to marry heterosexually.

Welcome, CNR.  Interesting that just a technical detail that refers to something we know about would of course jump out at us.  If that's the only "flaw" you found, that's pretty good.  Might there be some other explanation?  That it was just part of a freight train on a side route or something, going to meet up with the rest of the train?  Not that I know anything about trains, except they're wonderful.

But what with so much subtle meaning, symbol, metaphor in this film, your explanation fits into that -- that's a wonderful observation.

Born in 1949?  Or is that refer to something else?  If born in 1949, then welcome to another of our esteemed elders. 

kathy

[ksxks]

I want to think that the invitation Mrs. Twist extended to te departing Ennis would sooner or later be accepted.  But in the two years between that and Alma Jr.'s wedding, it would seem that Ennis kept to himself entirely.  Is this evidence that the LF episode was kind of traumatic for Ennis?  Still, I would like to think that inevitably, Ennis would re-establish contact with Mrs. Twist.  Perhaps this is only wishful thinking on my part -- to give the scenes in LF an extended meaning, and not make it look hopeless and unpleasant.

Thomas, was it two years??  Interesting.  I'd never really been aware of the timeline for that period.

I do think it was beautiful to put that in, Mrs. Twist's invitation for him to come back.  I love the idea of putting that meaning in there, as you said, to give us the hope that sometime those two who loved Jack Twist would see each other again.

kathy

[ksxks]

loreen, there is even some controversy about the timings in the last scenes.  Look at several threads posted about the Timings in the Last Scenes.  It may be several pages behind now, as they are old.  Look also at the index thread. 

I've never even been to that thread!  See, 2-1/2 years here, and there are still threads I've not yet come across!  Undiscovered treasures still to be found...

kathy

[babytammy7]

I have to addmit that I did not figure out that there is a 2 year gap between LF episode and Junior's wedding. How do you know this... I can't count it clearly...

IMO, should be a little while after LF episode ...

Please, help!

PS: I believe that LF scene has it extention... Ii just has to! ^^)   

Baby, you can see that if you read the Screenplay. Also in the SS Ennis said to Jack, during their last night together, that Junior was 17 years old. Then when Junior went to visit Ennis, Ennis said a line talking about Alma's age: 19 years old now.

Hope this helps. 

[orangetruck]

I think I've avoided this thread...

It would be very difficult for me to know my least favorite scene. I'll throw this out there though:

The delivery room scene with Jack, Laureen and her folks. The dad particularly sickens me in many ways.. hard to really pinpoint. He's just so closed in and lamed with convention. There's something perversely simple about him. I think I'll stop right there. Yeah, not my favorite scene - - The Thanksgiving scene is a little more tolerable as the center of attention is averted off of the bastard. 

[BlueMountain]

I think I've avoided this thread...

It would be very difficult for me to know my least favorite scene. I'll throw this out there though:

The delivery room scene with Jack, Laureen and her folks. The dad particularly sickens me in many ways.. hard to really pinpoint. He's just so closed in and lamed with convention. There's something perversely simple about him. I think I'll stop right there. Yeah, not my favorite scene - - The Thanksgiving scene is a little more tolerable as the center of attention is averted off of the bastard. 

LOL I was cheering for Jack when he screamed at that freak in the Thanksgiving scene! The whole turning on and off the TV was funny though!

I really hated that delivery room scene aswell... Laureen's dad was trating Jack like he was just a useless piece of trash!

[orangetruck]

LOL I was cheering for Jack when he screamed at that freak in the Thanksgiving scene! The whole turning on and off the TV was funny though!

I really hated that delivery room scene aswell... Laureen's dad was trating Jack like he was just a useless piece of trash!

Yeah I hear ya! It was something that just had to be done. Jack probably would have exploded or boiled over otherwise - - ... Hey wait a minute, that is what happened. 

Well... good for him!  That old sonuvabitch had it comin' 

[BlueMountain]

Yeah I hear ya! It was something that just had to be done. Jack probably would have exploded or boiled over otherwise - - ... Hey wait a minute, that is what happened. 

Well... good for him!  That old sonuvabitch had it comin' 

  You could tell that Loreen was about to start laughing too I love the way Jack said  "You sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week"!  The guy's expression after was priceless!

[orangetruck]

It sure was! I also think it revealed a sliver of his deeply buried fear of being alone; what was he to do after that demand from Jack? Oppose it? Really? In Jack's place? Maybe he finally felt cornered, closed in. Maybe his limited response was a reflection of what he puts onto others.

I start to wonder what wavelength that old fucker is riding away from fear, or from what, and how long he's been riding it. Something tells me he could use a heck of a lot more reality checks than this Thanksgiving one. Maybe he should be grateful he's even got anyone/thing to be thankful for.

On a lighter note, the bird looked really freakin' sexy 

[BlueMountain]

  Oh that Turkey looked so effing tasty! lol

I get really depressed after the scene where Ennis and Alma are in the kitchen after the Thanksgiving dinner and then when Alma starts talking about Jack and Ennis being together- It was really emotional and Michelle Williams's acting was just AMAZING!
It really hurt me from inside becasue I cant stand watching tough family scenes like that- reminds me of my family :\'( But I also felt really bad for Alma Jr. becasue all she wanted was to be with her dad and I really hated Ennis for not letting her live with him... She was very understanding and mature...

Oh! And I loved Jack's "angry" look at the dinner table for some reason