Topic: Fear of Love.....The Fight on Brokeback Mountain

[lancecowboy]

Sorry if I got things started about definitions again! 

I am leaning towards "resignation" when it comes to Ennis's acceptance of Jack's death because he understands that he cannot bring Jack back.  If we were to say contentment, the implication is that one can have the power to change this fact. 

Secondly, contentment would indicate that that the current situation is good for you, and therefore, it would imply that you have no wish to change.  Nobody who is content with his/her lot would want a change (either for the better or for the worst) -- that is the essence of the word itself, no?  It is the same with "resignation" -- except that in this term, one accepts that there are certain things beyond one's power to change, even if you wanted to.

It is true that Ennis most probably changes in other aspects of his life -- his view on love and life's priorities, for example.  Such a change cannot be described by either "contentment" or "resignation", because the will to change implies a desire to change the current state -- this goes against the grain of what it means to be content/resigned.

But in the matter of losing Jack and losing the opportunity for a sweet life, I think "resignation" is the more appropriate term.  To bring back Jack and BBM was beyond Ennis's power.  He had no choice but to accept and to learn from it -- perhaps by the repudiation of the fear to love.

Hi, tpe, what you imply for contentment is stagnation. I am not sure contentment equals stagnation and not changing. I think one can be content of a dynamic situation, where there is growth and continuous improvement. I think resignation has more connotation of stagnations, as someone suggested that resignation is passive submission to circumstances. Ennis may have accepted Jack's death as unchangeable; but he also realized that he could change, and was on his way of changing out of the old ways, and into a newer, more open relationship with his daughter, and I believe with Jack's Ma. Putting up a mailbox with the numbers. Not drinking or smoking as much. These are all positive signs of a man leaving behind a past that he could not change, and stepping into a future full of hope and expectations.

It's just my take on the last few scenes. I know others have dramatically different interpretation, and I have no doubt this is off topic.

So I will stop, before the OT sign comes out. 

[tpe]

Please don't apologise! 

I like the last line as well. Do you think the same part of Ennis that can face the shirts in the closet also somehow feels a responsibility towards Jacks of finding love in precisely another man? How ambiguous do you find Ennis' sexuality at this point, compared to his general ability to express himself? I personally figure only a thin line now separates desire from his actions. But I state that vaguely..

Thoughts?

I feel that the finding of the shirts was a turning point.  In fact, I would think that Ennis accepting Jr.'s invitation hints at a lifting of the fear to love.  I don't know whether in the ned, Ennis comes to terms with his sexuality, although I have no doubt that he was no longer afraid to acknowledge/accept his love for Jack WITHIN HIMSELF: he was no longer afraid to love another man, and this allowed him to love others more openly.  The "conflict from within" was now perhaps lifted.  But sadness and regret was not, because it was now too late...


As to responsibility, I think Ennis somehow felt that he was responsible in a fundamental way.  It was part and parcel of the element of regret that marred the end.


 

[tpe]

Hi, tpe, what you imply for contentment is stagnation. I am not sure contentment equals stagnation and not changing. I think one can be content of a dynamic situation, where there is growth and continuous improvement. I think resignation has more connotation of stagnations, as someone suggested that resignation is passive submission to circumstances. Ennis may have accepted Jack's death as unchangeable; but he also realized that he could change, and was on his way of changing out of the old ways, and into a newer, more open relationship with his daughter, and I believe with Jack's Ma. Putting up a mailbox with the numbers. Not drinking or smoking as much. These are all positive signs of a man leaving behind a past that he could not change, and stepping into a future full of hope and expectations.

It's just my take on the last few scenes. I know others have dramatically different interpretation, and I have no doubt this is off topic.

So I will stop, before the OT sign comes out. 

Resignation is used here to imply a state of grace -- it is a realization of one's limitations, and it implies that one accepts what one cannot change.

Your premise is that something can be done.  One feels that one is stagnating when one senses that once can change certain things for the better.

As I said in my post, there are certain things that Ennis realized that he could change (as is implied in his accepting Jr.'s wedding invitation.)  But in the matter to getting back Jack and the full power of BBM, this is something that he cannot change. 

I felt that Ennis realized this, and was therefore resigned.  No matter what he did, he cannot bring back Jack.  Again, stagnation implies a sense of discontentment born out of a belief that one can change things if one wills it.  This is certainly not the case with Ennis, in the matter of bringing back Jack or BBM.

[orangetruck]

I feel that the finding of the shirts was a turning point.  In fact, I would think that Ennis accepting Jr.'s invitation hints at a lifting of the fear to love.  I don't know whether in the ned, Ennis comes to terms with his sexuality, although I have no doubt that he was no longer afraid to acknowledge/accept his love for Jack WITHIN HIMSELF: he was no longer afraid to love another man, and this allowed him to love others more openly.  The "conflict from within" was now perhaps lifted.  But sadness and regret was not, because it was now too late...


As to responsibility, I think Ennis somehow felt that he was responsible in a fundamental way.  It was part and parcel of the element of regret that marred the end.


 

Thank you, I like how you state that. My optimistic side roots for this part of Ennis like a  on bad drugs, although I know it's not so cut and dry. As you say, perhaps the conflict from within was lifted. And I agree with that.

The closing of this film hits so many feelings for me, some unresolved. And I also find it incredibly cinematic how it pushes all of the prior story into its last frame. Also, when Ennis is looking out of the window while talking to Alma Jr., very haunting for me to watch. For one of the first times, he looks as if he's searching himself and discovering what's inside. It's so bittersweet that he's finally learning to speak from his heart.

He was never able to do this during his love affair with Jack, and I venture to think it really would first take resignation. It would take having the love and then its absense. Having Jack and losing him is what makes "You don't got nothing, you don't need nothing" so poignant for me. And it comes from Ennis' heart, from a man who's had the (dis)pleasure of studying the love of his life. That scene with Alma Jr. where the light rests on his face, seems to play a lyrical part in that "lift" in my eyes.

[tpe]

Thank you, I like how you state that. My optimistic side roots for this part of Ennis like a  on bad drugs, although I know it's not so cut and dry. As you say, perhaps the conflict from within was lifted. And I agree with that.

The closing of this film hits so many feelings for me, some unresolved. And I also find it incredibly cinematic how it pushes all of the prior story into its last frame. Also, when Ennis is looking out of the window while talking to Alma Jr., very haunting for me to watch. For one of the first times, he looks as if he's searching himself and discovering what's inside. It's so bittersweet that he's finally learning to speak from his heart.

He was never able to do this during his love affair with Jack, and I venture to think it really would first take resignation. It would take having the love and then its absense. Having Jack and losing him is what makes "You don't got nothing, you don't need nothing" so poignant for me. And it comes from Ennis' heart, from a man who's had the (dis)pleasure of studying the love of his life. That scene with Alma Jr. where the light rests on his face, seems to play a lyrical part in that "lift" in my eyes.

The screenplay is of course explicit in the mood that it paints in that closing scene: it refers to the vast and lonely plains.

Loneliness has replaced fear in the end, perhaps?

[orangetruck]

The screenplay is of course explicit in the mood that it paints in that closing scene: it refers to the vast and lonely plains.

Loneliness has replaced fear in the end, perhaps?

As he seems to be between jobs so to speak, I can eerily think so; loneliness is what I see in him and his eyes before he shuts the door to the closet. A bit like a "where do I go from here now that my heart's been scraped clean" although he has a much better idea now.  And good thing he's got the girls, destinations for his love as it needs to be stimulated and not laid down to die.
But really, just how bad can one be with a clean slate? Back then hell, he just quit the jobs. Only now I think he sees it's not only a job, but it's also a life. He needed his ass kicked by love, to know this, maybe.

For now I like thinking of it as recovery. He's a victim of love (and no doubt Jack was too) in recovery. And like the drug addict or alcoholic (but in Ennis' case, a deeper thing called love), he will eventually step outside with a smile, unafraid -- for what he had was true, and I doubt any man 'quits' something true. He is far from content.

A humble note for me, anyhow.. 

[lancecowboy]

The screenplay is of course explicit in the mood that it paints in that closing scene: it refers to the vast and lonely plains.

Loneliness has replaced fear in the end, perhaps?

Ennis was smiling as he put the numbers on his mailbox. He was smiling when Alma Jr drove up. He was smiling when they sat down to talk.

Ennis was alone most of his life. Call it whatever you want, resigned to loss, resigned to loneliness, whatever.

In my view, Ennis was content to have loved and lost, and gained the love of Jack's Ma.

If he was never at Lightning Flat, I'd say Ennis would be devastated, and lonely and resigned, etc...as you seem to think.

But I cannot ignore the scenes of him in Lightning Flat, in the closet, in the kitchen, as he said goodbye to Jack's Ma. To me, Ennis found new hope in life.

To me, this forum is Lightning Flat, and all the love and supportive members are like Jack's Ma.

[orangetruck]

Going back to the art of the individual interpretation, I think the final product of the trailer scene is something a person captures with their own experience; it's the feeling they want to keep in their own lives. One may be optimistic, knowing they can work out feelings of lonliness, thus using the word resigned and (temporary) lonliness. Others perhaps may need to hold onto the fact that Ennis had everything he needed, rendering the idea of going 1-2 more decades alone as something satisfactory or at all fulfilling.
Just an idea. Just as everyone looking at Picasso isn't going to manifest the same value.
Ennis' first love was Jack, and I can't quite cheat him out of his potential even at about 40 years old, to grow after that. Easily replaced is Jack? Nah of course not. But after having just now learned the secret of love, I think he's going to share it with yes, his daughters for starters. But everyone needs a mate, even if what seemed like his soulmate has left Ennis. He knows now that he is not adequate without someone like Jack to love; he is now a work in progress. And I don't think for a minute, even with Ma Twist's support (perhaps that alone is his fuel forward in his new life), he's stopping on the illusion of being content, alone in his trailer. If anything, he's just walking the bridge out of stoicism. A bit like signing out.

Alma was his meal ticket to exist; Jack was his meal ticket to live. Ennis isn't going to plant himself in that trailer.

[manhattangirl]

Going back to the art of the individual interpretation, I think the final product of the trailer scene is something a person captures with their own experience; it's the feeling they want to keep in their own lives. One may be optimistic, knowing they can work out feelings of lonliness, thus using the word resigned and (temporary) lonliness. Others perhaps may need to hold onto the fact that Ennis had everything he needed, rendering the idea of going 1-2 more decades alone as something satisfactory or at all fulfilling.
Just an idea. Just as everyone looking at Picasso isn't going to manifest the same value.
Ennis' first love was Jack, and I can't quite cheat him out of his potential even at about 40 years old, to grow after that. Easily replaced is Jack? Nah of course not. But after having just now learned the secret of love, I think he's going to share it with yes, his daughters for starters. But everyone needs a mate, even if what seemed like his soulmate has left Ennis. He knows now that he is not adequate without someone like Jack to love; he is now a work in progress. And I don't think for a minute, even with Ma Twist's support (perhaps that alone is his fuel forward in his new life), he's stopping on the illusion of being content, alone in his trailer. If anything, he's just walking the bridge out of stoicism. A bit like signing out.

Alma was his meal ticket to exist; Jack was his meal ticket to live. Ennis isn't going to plant himself in that trailer.

I agree with every word.

[lancecowboy]

Going back to the art of the individual interpretation, I think the final product of the trailer scene is something a person captures with their own experience; it's the feeling they want to keep in their own lives. One may be optimistic, knowing they can work out feelings of lonliness, thus using the word resigned and (temporary) lonliness. Others perhaps may need to hold onto the fact that Ennis had everything he needed, rendering the idea of going 1-2 more decades alone as something satisfactory or at all fulfilling.
Just an idea. Just as everyone looking at Picasso isn't going to manifest the same value.
Ennis' first love was Jack, and I can't quite cheat him out of his potential even at about 40 years old, to grow after that. Easily replaced is Jack? Nah of course not. But after having just now learned the secret of love, I think he's going to share it with yes, his daughters for starters. But everyone needs a mate, even if what seemed like his soulmate has left Ennis. He knows now that he is not adequate without someone like Jack to love; he is now a work in progress. And I don't think for a minute, even with Ma Twist's support (perhaps that alone is his fuel forward in his new life), he's stopping on the illusion of being content, alone in his trailer. If anything, he's just walking the bridge out of stoicism. A bit like signing out.

Alma was his meal ticket to exist; Jack was his meal ticket to live. Ennis isn't going to plant himself in that trailer.

I agree to a certain extent what you said above, except the part about Ennis' intention to find a mate, to find love again.

I would be happy for Ennis to find love again, or rather, for love to find Ennis again. However, in the shortstory, Ennis was stuck with Jack. It is entirely consistent with Ennis' character to hold on to the love of his life, with his memories of Brokeback Mountain. I agree that we interpret the movie with our own vision of what we want. And I don't fault anyone to want Ennis to have another love of his life again. As many members here can testify, sometimes, people can be lucky, and experience love twice in a life time.

However, I think it would be honest to see Ennis as Ennis, the man who was attracted only to Jack (according to his own confession in the motel room in the short story) and who was content with a couple of high attitude f@#$s a few times a year (according to Jack in the movie). Not everyone is able to live a life of solitude, as Ennis was doing. I think it was Tony and Jackster who told me that for an introvert like Ennis, living in a world of his own, with his own memories of Jack, was possible and easier than for an extrovert like Jack, who needs external validation and stimulation to exist, to live. I think, in my opinion, living in his own reality with his memories, is preferable for Ennis, than to live in a world full of hostilities and incomprehensible rules and customs. It is one thing to interpret the movie, and quite another to project one's own interpretation into the movie and insist that is the truth. I think we need to be true to the character, and allow it to grow and evolve according to its own world-view, not our modern gay-liberated expectations.

Not every gay man needs to be in a relationship. Ennis can be just as happy, without f@#Eing anyone or any sheep. 

In fact, I have been toying with the idea of writing a continuation of Ennis after the last scene. This may be just the impetus I needed to get me going, to show my own vision of how love will find Ennis again, even though he is happy with his two shirts, the trailer, the mailbox, Jack's Ma, his daughters, his ranch buddies, his memories. It may be off topic here, but it is related to the fact that after the initial fear of love in '63, Ennis evolved over the twenty years, with Jack's help to embrace the love between them, and finally, be open to love of other kind, of friendship, of family. It is not necessary to have romantic love to be fulfilled. That is a fallacy of the modern age. IMO.

[babytammy7]

I agree to a certain extent what you said above, except the part about Ennis' intention to find a mate, to find love again.

I would be happy for Ennis to find love again, or rather, for love to find Ennis again. However, in the shortstory, Ennis was stuck with Jack. It is entirely consistent with Ennis' character to hold on to the love of his life, with his memories of Brokeback Mountain. I agree that we interpret the movie with our own vision of what we want. And I don't fault anyone to want Ennis to have another love of his life again. As many members here can testify, sometimes, people can be lucky, and experience love twice in a life time.

However, I think it would be honest to see Ennis as Ennis, the man who was attracted only to Jack (according to his own confession in the motel room in the short story) and who was content with a couple of high attitude f@#$s a few times a year (according to Jack in the movie). Not everyone is able to live a life of solitude, as Ennis was doing. I think it was Tony and Jackster who told me that for an introvert like Ennis, living in a world of his own, with his own memories of Jack, was possible and easier than for an extrovert like Jack, who needs external validation and stimulation to exist, to live. I think, in my opinion, living in his own reality with his memories, is preferable for Ennis, than to live in a world full of hostilities and incomprehensible rules and customs. It is one thing to interpret the movie, and quite another to project one's own interpretation into the movie and insist that is the truth. I think we need to be true to the character, and allow it to grow and evolve according to its own world-view, not our modern gay-liberated expectations.

Not every gay man needs to be in a relationship. Ennis can be just as happy, without f@#Eing anyone or any sheep. 

In fact, I have been toying with the idea of writing a continuation of Ennis after the last scene. This may be just the impetus I needed to get me going, to show my own vision of how love will find Ennis again, even though he is happy with his two shirts, the trailer, the mailbox, Jack's Ma, his daughters, his ranch buddies, his memories. It may be off topic here, but it is related to the fact that after the initial fear of love in '63, Ennis evolved over the twenty years, with Jack's help to embrace the love between them, and finally, be open to love of other kind, of friendship, of family. It is not necessary to have romantic love to be fulfilled. That is a fallacy of the modern age. IMO.

True!!! Love your post, Andrew!!! 

[orangetruck]

I like to go back to the SS's closing. If you can't fix it, you got to stand it. This was a quick kick in the heart for most readers including myself. Like a nerd with a Scooby lunchpail gets hammered in the gut by the shcool bully, and recovers with too much pain and shock to think of his next move, we slap the book shut and throw it on the table and sort of 

It's this, Annie's backdrop to Ennis' literal "Jack, I swear.." (rather than "if you can't fix it..") that does give me something to follow:
He wasn't now going to stand it like an overly seasoned stoic. He was only going to stand it so long as love didn't fall from the sky and interrupt him again. He does not say "if you can't fix it, you got to stand it" this time, no. That is simply the black hole of the story that many like myself perceive Ennis climbing out of. When I suggest Ennis needs someone like Jack to love, I'm speaking for his understanding that he needs genuine love and not to hide from it when it knocks on his door. He's not actively pursueing it. He's perhaps open to the light of love now. I think the memories of Jack that he holds onto, are seen now in this light. I get this in the scene of him mumbling to Alma Jr. as he's staring out of the open window, articulating the idiosyncrasies of a freshly open heart.

His knowing love really is feasible, is perhaps more powerful than having another mate for now, yes. The window to opportunity can be somethin' else. Knowin this, and holding onto Jack can very well do the trick. I don't dismiss that. I also won't dismiss the potential of any forward motion though. If anything, I'd like to see how Ennis would fall in love again when/if possible; it would stimulate my ability to do the same. I would certainly appreciate knowing just how to do this.

Should you choose to write something of said extension, I would find an interest in reading it, Andrew. Let us know?

[welshwitch]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.


It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

[orangetruck]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.


It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

I like the sentiment I get from this. Great way to put both men in perspective here..

[tpe]

As he seems to be between jobs so to speak, I can eerily think so; loneliness is what I see in him and his eyes before he shuts the door to the closet. A bit like a "where do I go from here now that my heart's been scraped clean" although he has a much better idea now.  And good thing he's got the girls, destinations for his love as it needs to be stimulated and not laid down to die.
But really, just how bad can one be with a clean slate? Back then hell, he just quit the jobs. Only now I think he sees it's not only a job, but it's also a life. He needed his ass kicked by love, to know this, maybe.

For now I like thinking of it as recovery. He's a victim of love (and no doubt Jack was too) in recovery. And like the drug addict or alcoholic (but in Ennis' case, a deeper thing called love), he will eventually step outside with a smile, unafraid -- for what he had was true, and I doubt any man 'quits' something true. He is far from content.

A humble note for me, anyhow.. 

"Recovery" is an interesting way to put it -- it implies a period of withdrawal, which is what I assume he did in between LF and Alma Jr.'s final visit.  Of course, the screenplay indicates a lapse of nearly 2 years between the scenes...

[tpe]

Ennis was smiling as he put the numbers on his mailbox. He was smiling when Alma Jr drove up. He was smiling when they sat down to talk.

Ennis was alone most of his life. Call it whatever you want, resigned to loss, resigned to loneliness, whatever.

In my view, Ennis was content to have loved and lost, and gained the love of Jack's Ma.

If he was never at Lightning Flat, I'd say Ennis would be devastated, and lonely and resigned, etc...as you seem to think.

But I cannot ignore the scenes of him in Lightning Flat, in the closet, in the kitchen, as he said goodbye to Jack's Ma. To me, Ennis found new hope in life.

To me, this forum is Lightning Flat, and all the love and supportive members are like Jack's Ma.

As I think all of us would agree, a smile does not mean that the person is happy.  I persoanlly thought that Ennis's smiles throughout the final scene was one dominated by melancholy.  And this is affirmed by the burning tears near the end.

But we also know that melancholy can also hide a degree of contentment, perhaps happiness -- at least a lifting up of some burden.  True, he was lonely for most of his life, so perhaps we can look at things relatively.

Overall, I suspect that his fears were (at least) partially abated in the end.

 

[orangetruck]

"Recovery" is an interesting way to put it -- it implies a period of withdrawal, which is what I assume he did in between LF and Alma Jr.'s final visit.  Of course, the screenplay indicates a lapse of nearly 2 years between the scenes...

Yeah, and now I find it interesting that Alma Jr. says "Daddy, that was two years ago. I'm seeing Kurt now".
I wonder if that hit Ennis hard with the notion that love was replaceable after two years, but not his for Jack..

[tpe]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.


It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

THis is quite interesting, IMO.  Certainly, I can see an element of relief here: perhaps this is what I took to be a partial abatement of his fears...  I love how you say it: that "he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now."

[orangetruck]

As I think all of us would agree, a smile does not mean that the person is happy.  I persoanlly thought that Ennis's smiles throughout the final scene was one dominated by melancholy.  And this is affirmed by the burning tears near the end.

But we also know that melancholy can also hide a degree of contentment, perhaps happiness -- at least a lifting up of some burden.  True, he was lonely for most of his life, so perhaps we can look at things relatively.

Overall, I suspect that his fears were (at least) partially abated in the end.

 

Ditto. 

[tpe]

Yeah, and now I find it interesting tha Alma Jr. says "Daddy, that was two years ago. I'm seeing Kurt now".
I wonder if that his Ennis hard with the notion that love was replaceable after two years, but not his for Jack..

This is quite insightful -- I had never thought of it that way.  It would have struck Ennis as a bit ironic, perhaps?    This is slightly OT, but interesting point, I must confess...

[babytammy7]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.

It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

I know I'm probably not understanding this well, so sorry if I say stupid things...but are you all saying that Ennis was in some way "happy" because Jack was dead and he had not to keep fighting with his fears? Are you saying he preferred that, Jack being dead, because he was finally freed from him? If that is like that, I think it's horrible and very sad. I can't believe that. I'm sure he preferred Jack alive and keep suffering and not Jack dead and being freed from suffering and fears....

Well, if you was not talking about that, SORRY!! It's just my English: I don't get things right!! 

[aintfoolin]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.


It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

I would tend to agree with this to a certain degree, but I would totally agree had Ennis  not changed.
I feel he changed after Jack's death in a way that stayed with him. He  practically made a shrine in his closet , a reminder of his time with Jack. Thru this display he can re-live their love whenever he wanted. He dreamed and saw Jack there.  Swore that he would use the lessons Jack taught him.

 No, he would no longer have fear of discovery or any of the obstacles that they dealt with, Ennis, as some  have said had  a*come to Jesus moment*  in LF when he found the shirts. The devastation of Jack's death moved  him to admit some deep realizations to himself that only came clear to him after Jack's death. He realized that Jack really did love him and more important to Ennis that he  really loved Jack too. That this  is what their 20 yr relationship meant.  The way Jack made him feel,The longing and need for Jack's presence  meant something. It meant he was in love.   He was forced to come clean about it.

It was not only what Jack did for him, but what Jack did to him. He recieved a lot from Jack and took it in , became a part of him, a true freind and partner in life. Indeed a part of him died when Jack died. He no longer had that , could'nt enjoy Jack again like he wanted and needed to , that part was stolen away from him and he had to learn to lived with that empty, vacant spot, what he could have done to prevent it, including ranching up. The loss was great.
 Though he did  not have the roller-coaster ride  any longer, and the fearful secrecy, I feel at that moment he tearfully embraced those shirts, he knew the loss.  But Jack did'nt just leave Ennis adrift in sorrow.  Tough he was gone, he left a legacy of love for Ennis to live by. Certainly Ennis had regrets, but I feel he would have traded all his fears, shame and failure to commit to Jack ,for one more look, one more touch of his  precious Jack at that moment., but he did find the shirts, and the message contained in them.  Knowing the depth of Jack's love and now knowing what this loss means to him, I think he do anything to have Jack alive and well , Still giving him what he needed. Think he was a lot more than just relieved. He was changed forever for it.

[Marj]

I would tend to agree with this to a certain degree, but I would totally agree had Ennis  not changed.
I feel he changed after Jack's death in a way that stayed with him. He  practically made a shrine in his closet , a reminder of his time with Jack. Thru this display he can re-live their love whenever he wanted. He dreamed and saw Jack there.  Swore that he would use the lessons Jack taught him.

 No, he would no longer have fear of discovery or any of the obstacles that they dealt with, Ennis, as some  have said had  a*come to Jesus moment*  in LF when he found the shirts. The devastation of Jack's death moved  him to admit some deep realizations to himself that only came clear to him after Jack's death. He realized that Jack really did love him and more important to Ennis that he  really loved Jack too. That this  is what their 20 yr relationship meant.  The way Jack made him feel,The longing and need for Jack's presence  meant something. It meant he was in love.   He was forced to come clean about it.

It was not only what Jack did for him, but what Jack did to him. He recieved a lot from Jack and took it in , became a part of him, a true freind and partner in life. Indeed a part of him died when Jack died. He no longer had that , could'nt enjoy Jack again like he wanted and needed to , that part was stolen away from him and he had to learn to lived with that empty, vacant spot, what he could have done to prevent it, including ranching up. The loss was great.
 Though he did  not have the roller-coaster ride  any longer, and the fearful secrecy, I feel at that moment he tearfully embraced those shirts, he knew the loss.  But Jack did'nt just leave Ennis adrift in sorrow.  Tough he was gone, he left a legacy of love for Ennis to live by. Certainly Ennis had regrets, but I feel he would have traded all his fears, shame and failure to commit to Jack ,for one more look, one more touch of his  precious Jack at that moment., but he did find the shirts, and the message contained in them.  Knowing the depth of Jack's love and now knowing what this loss means to him, I think he do anything to have Jack alive and well , Still giving him what he needed. Think he was a lot more than just relieved. He was changed forever for it.

Aintfoolin, I couldn't have said it any better.
Wow, you describe this so beautifully...you have said what i wanted to say but i couldn't find the words.
Thank you 

[manhattangirl]

It seems to me that given Ennis's character, once Jack is dead and the shirts there as a daily reminder of what they had, he is in a way more at ease with himself simply because he no longer fears discovery, no  longer goes through the emotional roller-coaster of the infrequent meetings, no longer has to justify to himself why he constantly refuses Jack's requests to settle together. Jack is now part of a past that he can remember and Ennis is freed from any further active involvement with him.
It's sometimes easier to live with memories of the past than go ioon in a situation which causes constent stress; I think, rather as when someone dies after a long illness, there's an element of relief for Ennis in Jack's death. There's also a sense that Jack is now secure from the vicissitudes of life and aging; he also belongs to Ennis almost entirely now.

If Ennis had another bite at that apple, and it made his stomach hurt, I think he would stand the pain, because it was so sweet.   JMO

[tpe]

If Ennis had another bite at that apple, and it made his stomach hurt, I think he would stand the pain, because it was so sweet.   JMO

Wonderful metaphor!  Although sometimes, we crave especially the astringency of sour fruit.

[babytammy7]

I would tend to agree with this to a certain degree, but I would totally agree had Ennis  not changed.
I feel he changed after Jack's death in a way that stayed with him. He  practically made a shrine in his closet , a reminder of his time with Jack. Thru this display he can re-live their love whenever he wanted. He dreamed and saw Jack there.  Swore that he would use the lessons Jack taught him.

 No, he would no longer have fear of discovery or any of the obstacles that they dealt with, Ennis, as some  have said had  a*come to Jesus moment*  in LF when he found the shirts. The devastation of Jack's death moved  him to admit some deep realizations to himself that only came clear to him after Jack's death. He realized that Jack really did love him and more important to Ennis that he  really loved Jack too. That this  is what their 20 yr relationship meant.  The way Jack made him feel,The longing and need for Jack's presence  meant something. It meant he was in love.   He was forced to come clean about it.

It was not only what Jack did for him, but what Jack did to him. He recieved a lot from Jack and took it in , became a part of him, a true freind and partner in life. Indeed a part of him died when Jack died. He no longer had that , could'nt enjoy Jack again like he wanted and needed to , that part was stolen away from him and he had to learn to lived with that empty, vacant spot, what he could have done to prevent it, including ranching up. The loss was great.
 Though he did  not have the roller-coaster ride  any longer, and the fearful secrecy, I feel at that moment he tearfully embraced those shirts, he knew the loss.  But Jack did'nt just leave Ennis adrift in sorrow.  Tough he was gone, he left a legacy of love for Ennis to live by. Certainly Ennis had regrets, but I feel he would have traded all his fears, shame and failure to commit to Jack ,for one more look, one more touch of his  precious Jack at that moment., but he did find the shirts, and the message contained in them.  Knowing the depth of Jack's love and now knowing what this loss means to him, I think he do anything to have Jack alive and well , Still giving him what he needed. Think he was a lot more than just relieved. He was changed forever for it.

Beautiful, beautiful AF!! I love the whole post but especially the last part. You just said what I needed to hear. 

[lancecowboy]

It's funny, how something old can be something new again.

I was just taking my long stroll in the sun today, when all of a sudden it struck me what this meant, fear of love. I didn't understand this thread all this time, but now I see it, and agree with most of what had been said.

Poor Ennis...his fear was not just his homophobia from his daddy, but also his fear of love for the lack of love from all 'em years.

That summer of '63 was the closest he was ever going to get to loving and being loved. Sitting there on the grassy knoll, thinking, thinking of the love, the love to be lost, wanting but afraid, yearning but feeling helpless.

That fight was all the anger and frustration released. And then for four years afterwards, the regret, the fear, the anger, the guilt, ... No wonder he was ecstatic seeing Jack again. That reunion was all the love coming back in one rushing moment.

And then finding the shirts after twenty years, after losing Jack, in the grief of forever losing the love of his life.

In a way, the story had to end that way. Ennis was not only homophobic, but also afraid of love, afraid of loving and being loved. Even if Jack were not there in the middle, his marriage with Alma was doomed. There was affection but not love. He would do anything for Alma and the girls, even moving to Riverton, but he wasn't loved and loving the way he was with Jack, totaling and completing, touching and merging of two souls. He could only love Jack the way it was, a few times a year in the middle of no where, or forever in the closet of his empty trailer, and every once in a while in his dreams wetting his pillows or his sheets. To love Jack more often than that, even if it were possible, meant a kind of vulnerability and submission to another, that was just too foreign for the always independent self-reliant cowboy. It was okay when they were two work buddies on the mountain, but out of it, down in civilization, even in Denver or San Francisco, Ennis would only be what he was with Cassie, always there but pulling away. Never committing.

Poor Ennis. I think I was holding back writing the rest of my fan fiction, the continuation, Return to Brokeback Mountain. I didn't think I had enough to write about the life of Ennis after losing Jack. It's funny, how I thought I knew Ennis, when I didn't know him that well at all. I don't if I do now. I guess I will have to watch the movie, read the short story, again and again.

[jackster]

Great post 'Cowboy.
We all need to Return to Brokeback Mountain now an' then.
Thinkin' a you today, 4th April.

[lancecowboy]

Great post 'Cowboy.
We all need to Return to Brokeback Mountain now an' then.
Thinkin' a you today, 4th April.

Thanks, Jackster. I've been thinking of you ever since we met. That was thoughtful of you to stop off to meet.

I am glad you enjoyed our conversations. In a way, it was our talks, and also serendipitously, learning about bobandjack.org, and now, learning about Chris Isherwood and Don Bachardy that triggered my thoughts on this thread again. What did these long relationships have, why did these couples last so long, that Ennis and Jack didn't have. It couldn't have been just homophobia, because there were also other gay couples, who were not afraid to of coming out, and yet, their relationships never lasted, never took off even. These were the Ennises who were afraid of commitment, who were afraid of loving and being loved. Fear of love...I knew this was a great thread when Tony started it, but just didn't understand why. Now I think I have an idea.

[vedrana]

Lance, your post reminded me of a movie review in which  Ennis Del Mar was described as a classic western hero, who rides towards sunset, holding a deep sorrow of a lost love in his heart, no matter what a gender that love was. It is stated that BBM is in a way a classic western, in which was not meant that hero marry his only love, less for the restrains of the society and more because of the very nature of the specific, noble and individualistic solitary - the hero, Ennis! Also, it says that the solitary will suffer all his life for the lost love in his heart, nevertheless he can not feel any community as his own, coz he doesn't belong anywhere but to himself, his depressed feelings and melancholic memories...

I hope that you can understand my translation of the review. It gave me a whole new perspective of the movie. Not that it made any easier for me ( a Jack's lover), but I see a new side of Ennis (and Jack)... and somehow your post reminded me of that.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Every cowboy should know how to recognize his Jack along the way, grab him, slam him against the wall and do whatever it takes to keep him .... and forget riding towards the sunset and the melancholy - only love is what matters in the end, I think!