Author Topic: Randall (Read 236003 times)

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #150 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 03:54 AM »

This is very clever marketing from Focus.

Release a film, withdraw and cut it, re-release the film but keep the old trailer as a tease, then finaly release the whole lot anyway at a premium. Then once again in HD once when more people have the technology to play it.

Its the best one since new formula Coke.

Yet with a product that is so damn good, I cannot wait to pre-order!

tpe · « **Reply #151 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 07:04 AM »

Quote from: Saul on Oct 26, 2006, 04:42 PM

Anyway, while we are all awaiting the delux DVD, what is known about those cut scenes?

They are of course all over and above the story, but they are still facinating.

Saul

I probably know as much as you do; in particular, the scene pertaining to the mechanics, Jack and Randall (and as you had mentioned, the hippie scene). I wonder if there were more cut scenes involving Randall -- say, scenes showing he and Jack at the cabin of Randall's boss. Perhaps Randall was not so shadowy in Ang Lee's mind. But in any case, he did finally opt for ambiguity and kept just 2 scenes with Randall.

welshwitch · « **Reply #152 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 09:01 AM »

Ang evidently wanted to keep the first part, on the mountain, untouched, although it's long and some critics said ( having missed the point rather) that iit's slow. But to have shortened that ( and he's have had to if the movie wasn;t going to become too long as a whole) and include more scenes of Jack and Randall would have upset the balance of the movie and detracted from the uniqueness of the Jack and Ennis scenes, IMO. The Ennis and Cassie scenes are different - the realtionship, if it's physical, is not with another man;they also relate to Alma Jr. I think Randall needs to be merely a hint, a suggestion, rather than a major fact in Jack's life.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #153 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 06:06 PM »

I am glad the BBM scenes have not been shortened. Anything but that. The film seems slow, but all the same you woosh through nearly twenty years in two hours with very good continuity. The big dipper ride grabs you with alternating hope and dispair.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #154 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 06:22 PM »

Been lurking and reading alot but for the small part Randall had in the film, he is significant beause he was one of Jack's lovers on the side. I still have yet to figure how he knew Jack was gay and that it was alright to come on to him. Jack's at the table with his wife Lureen although its obvious that their marriage had "cooled" but how in the hell did Randall know? Aside from the straring between these two, I don't see any signs of flirting. Gaydar maybe? I did'nt see it.

I'm still waiting for the Director's Cut. ....come on Ang your audience awaits.

tpe · « **Reply #155 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 06:27 PM »

They wer particularly circumspect during the dinner. Randall was bolder, to be sure. His stares were very intense, no? Fleeting, but intense. I am sure Jack knew what those stares meant.

I do think it is gaydar -- or something like that.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #156 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 06:38 PM »

The way Randall came on to Jack was all done with double meaning. There was not one word which could be taken as not literally meaning what was said, as if sex were not on the menu and that it could always be taken that Jack had a dirty mind, reading things into what was not there, if Jack by chance took offence.

Just how it is in real life when married men get off with eachother. Its never "lets go off and !*#!". Its usually more

&

.

CrimsonSky · « **Reply #157 on:** Oct 27, 2006, 08:39 PM »

Quote from: Saul on Oct 27, 2006, 06:38 PM

The way Randall came on to Jack was all done with double meaning. There was not one word which could be taken as not literally meaning what was said, as if sex were not on the menu and that it could always be taken that Jack had a dirty mind, reading things into what was not there, if Jack by chance took offence.

Just how it is in real life when married men get off with eachother. Its never "lets go off and !*#!". Its usually more & .

If Jack/Jake looked at me like that, I would be thinking "Yay, it's my lucky night!!"

And it wasn't just the once, the looks were going back and forth between them, but that's all it was, just looks, so they weren't being too blatant, but just enough to make sure each of them knew what was on the other's mind

And the scene outside, Randall doesn't actually suggest anything other than just two buddies going fishing for the weekend (which is exactly what Jack and Ennis did, as far as anyone else is concerned), but they were both on the same wavelength enough to know what it really meant

I also think when Jack says about women powdering their nose to go home and go to bed could have been a hint that Randall picked up on, the reason most women would powder their nose (as in fixing their make-up/hair) when leaving a party would be to look attractive to go home and go to bed with her husband, the fact that Jack didn't realise, or care, that that was what Lureen was doing would have implied to Randall that Jack wasn't all that interested in Lureen sexually (especially when you add it to Lureen's comment about husbands not wanting to dance with their wives).

On the subject of Randall, excited as I am at the thought of the deleted scenes on the new DVD, I'm not sure I really want to see the scene of Jack and Randall hugging (if it does indeed exist). I'm not as anti-Randall as I once was, I can accept him and Jack having something approaching a proper relationship, rather than just meaningless sex, but I'm not sure I want to actually see any evidence of it $:-\\$

aintfoolin · « **Reply #158 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 02:55 AM »

Maybe we should lighten up on Randall. he has not been the most popular person in the threads so far. I 'm gonna try though. What baffles me too is all this went on literally beneath the nose of Lureen and LaShawn. The ladies were both cluless. Wow, these guys are good. OK, I see what you mean after watching the scene again. Randall's words could have been initerpreted literally in case Jack was't gay .

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #159 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 02:26 PM »

If Jack/Jake looked at me like that, I would be thinking "Yay, it's my lucky night!!"

On the other hand its a matter of context. Be a man watcher. Watch men who are seriously interested in eachother, even if it is not sexual. They all look at each other this way.

the reason most women would powder their nose (as in fixing their make-up/hair) when leaving a party would be to look attractive to go home and go to bed with her husband

Thanks for explaining that mistery!

On the subject of Randall, excited as I am at the thought of the deleted scenes on the new DVD, I'm not sure I really want to see the scene of Jack and Randall hugging (if it does indeed exist).

Who knows. The implication is they did a lot more that hugging.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #160 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 07:57 PM »

Who are these men men who like their women coming to bed lookin like a powdered donut? I'm with Jack on this one .For example Lureen could tone down the hair a little and the make up. It's called natrual looking and she should get to know it. Sorry Lureen lovers this is my opinion less is more.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #161 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 08:48 PM »

If there are additional scenes involving Randall I think I want to see them. Whether we like it or not, Randall factors into this story. We do know that he and Jack were involved. Regardless of what we see on the screen we know that Jack and Ennis had a love that wasn't destroyed by distance. The story would have needed to have a different ending to see if Randall actually stood a real chance with Jack.

greenfrog · « **Reply #162 on:** Oct 28, 2006, 08:51 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Oct 28, 2006, 08:48 PM

If there are additional scenes involving Randall I think I want to see them. Whether we like it or not, Randall factors into this story. We do know that he and Jack were involved. Regardless of what we see on the screen we know that Jack and Ennis had a love that wasn't destroyed by distance. The story would have needed to have a different ending to see if Randall actually stood a real chance with Jack.

Agreed Cowboy

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #163 on:** Oct 29, 2006, 01:41 PM »

Ennis was clearly the love of Jacks life.

However, he did have things with other men in the four years before he cotacted Ennis. ( "Jack who had been riding more than bulls" from the hotel scene in the story.) Possible takes on a Rodeo clown (?) Trips to Mexico too. Finally there was Randall with whom he was trying to set up a sweet life with, as Ennis would not even thought it was the 80's and he was long before divorced.

I understand both sides of it.

Jack died trying.

Saul

greenfrog · « **Reply #164 on:** Oct 29, 2006, 06:18 PM »

Quote from: Saul on Oct 29, 2006, 01:41 PM

Jack died trying.

Saul

:\'( :\'( :\'(

tpe · « **Reply #165 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 08:09 AM »

Quote from: CrimsonSky on Oct 27, 2006, 08:39 PM

If Jack/Jake looked at me like that, I would be thinking "Yay, it's my lucky night!!" And it wasn't just the once, the looks were going back and forth between them, but that's all it was, just looks, so they weren't being too blatant, but just enough to make sure each of them knew what was on the other's mind And the scene outside, Randall doesn't actually suggest anything other than just two buddies going fishing for the weekend (which is exactly what Jack and Ennis did, as far as anyone else is concerned), but they were both on the same wavelength enough to know what it really meant I also think when Jack says about women powdering their nose to go home and go to bed could have been a hint that Randall picked up on, the reason most women would powder their nose (as in fixing their make-up/hair) when leaving a party would be to look attractive to go home and go to bed with her husband, the fact that Jack didn't realise, or care, that that was what Lureen was doing would have implied to Randall that Jack wasn't all that interested in Lureen sexually (especially when you add it to Lureen's comment about husbands not wanting to dance with their wives).

On the subject of Randall, excited as I am at the thought of the deleted scenes on the new DVD, I'm not sure I really want to see the scene of Jack and Randall hugging (if it does indeed exist). I'm not as anti-Randall as I once was, I can accept him and Jack having something approaching a proper relationship, rather than just meaningless sex, but I'm not sure I want to actually see any evidence of it $:-\\$

CrimsonSky, your comment about wives powdering their noses was very helpful! I like it. I had not though about it this way, but what you say makes a lot of sense to me. Is it strange that I had not looked at it this way?

tpe · « **Reply #166 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 08:19 AM »

Quote from: Saul on Oct 28, 2006, 02:26 PM

If Jack/Jake looked at me like that, I would be thinking "Yay, it's my lucky night!!"

On the other hand its a matter of context. Be a man watcher. Watch men who are seriously interested in eachother, even if it is not sexual. They all look at each other this way.

I can vouchsafe for this one!

Quote

the reason most women would powder their nose (as in fixing their make-up/hair) when leaving a party would be to look attractive to go home and go to bed with her husband

Thanks for explaining that mistery!

Indeed!

Quote

On the subject of Randall, excited as I am at the thought of the deleted scenes on the new DVD, I'm not sure I really want to see the scene of Jack and Randall hugging (if it does indeed exist).

Who knows. The implication is they did a lot more that hugging.

I agree. If we are to interpret Jack's mention of an affair with the ranch foreman's wife as an inverted reference to his affair with Randall, then it would imply that they had some experience with each other. Such a use of inversion is very Proustian...

welshwitch · « **Reply #167 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 12:24 PM »

I reckon that Randall wasn't very interested in LaShawn (!) and she knew it. So the nose-powdering thing is done, as are many apparently illogical things women do, not for Randall's sake nor Jack's but to impress other women. Jane Austen noted that "woman is fine" for herself and other women, not to impress men, and she's right. Lureen and LaSahwn are in direct competition - look at the attempt to impress by sorority membership - and neither Randall nor Jack is interested or impressed - or indeed even looking.

( In any case men never notice things like clothes and hair and makeup but other women do!)

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #168 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 01:57 PM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Oct 29, 2006, 06:18 PM

Quote from: Saul on Oct 29, 2006, 01:41 PM
Jack died trying.

Saul

:\'( :\'( :\'(

Oh greenfrog. Thats so sad.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #169 on:** Oct 30, 2006, 02:04 PM »

Quote from: welshwitch on Oct 30, 2006, 12:24 PM

I reckon that Randall wasn't very interested in LaShawn (!) and she knew it.

LaShawn is one character I could cheerfully strangle. Such a chatterbox! (Brilliantly acted as are all parts without exception in BBM).

Condiments · « **Reply #170 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 01:57 AM »

Has anyone else noticed (and please excuse me if this has already been discussed---I'm new here

) that when Jack asks LaShawn to dance, for a split-second Randall has a look on his face as if Jack had asked him to dance.

I'm not nuts, am I?

but every time I see that scene and that moment I think that's what's happening.

And, by the way, I really, really like Randall. I think he's a darling bear of a man and he seems really nice and kind for Jack. Not, and I repeat not, as any sort of substitute for Ennis! Just a really nice guy who, duh, of course, is attracted to Jack!

Shelley

aintfoolin · « **Reply #171 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 02:13 AM »

No your not nuts. Jack WAS looking dead into Randall's eyes when he asked LaShawn to dance. Some think he's a creepy bastard but I agree He's not so bad. He just tried to come between what I feel is the the perfect match. Any threat to that disturbs me.Ennis and Jack forever!

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #172 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 06:34 AM »

I don't see Randall as someone who tried to come between Ennis and Jack. I would imagine Randall's relationship with Jack was similar to Ennis and Cassie. Neither Randall or Cassie knew of another significant person in Jack and Ennis's life. Cassie knew there was a wall that kept her from getting closer to Ennis. She just had no idea it was Jack. What we don't know is if Randall reached a point where he may have felt something or someone was keeping him from being closer to Jack. Despite the fact that Jack may have decided to move on with Randall, he was not the primary factor in Ennis and Jack's separation. The primary factor was a fear of their relationship imposed by the society under which their relationship began.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #173 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 06:42 PM »

I like Randall too. He is married a hunk with a nice beard. Just exactly the sort of man who has men on the side in my experience. He almost certainly knew nothing about Ennis. And between the lines he was prepared to leave his wife and go and build that log cabin an Jacks parents farm. He would have if Jack had not been killed. Ennis had had 20 years to do it.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #174 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 06:53 PM »

I like Randall. However, the love that Jack and Ennis shared might have always posed a threat to Randall had Jack lived and attempted to move on. I know it's just speculation at this point, but I can't ignore an important fact. By moving back to Lightening Flat, Jack would have been much closer to Ennis. Chances are Jack and Ennis would run into each other from time to time. I believe the temptation to dump Randall at the slightest invitation from Ennis would be very great. As much as I like Randall, I don't see where there could have been a solid future with Jack if Ennis was anywhere in the vicinity.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #175 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 08:14 PM »

No Shelley you're not nuts- I always thought he was looking at Randall when he asked LaShawn to dance.

I don't dislike Randall either. I want Jack and Ennis all the way but if Randall was able to provide some sort of stability or fill some void in Jack then I'm okay with that. I do agree that if Jack had moved back to LF or if Ennis had given some word that he was ready for that life with Jack then Randall would have been history. And CSC I like what you said about Randall not being a cause of their seperation.

CrimsonSky- I love that interpretation of the women powdering their noses.

I never thought of it that way.

greenfrog · « **Reply #176 on:** Nov 05, 2006, 09:14 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Nov 05, 2006, 06:53 PM

I like Randall. However, the love that Jack and Ennis shared might have always posed a threat to Randall had Jack lived and attempted to move on. I know it's just speculation at this point, but I can't ignore an important fact. By moving back to Lightening Flat, Jack would have been much closer to Ennis. Chances are Jack and Ennis would run into each other from time to time. I believe the temptation to dump Randall at the slightest invitation from Ennis would be very great. As much as I like Randall, I don't see where there could have been a solid future with Jack if Ennis was anywhere in the vicinity.

Great post Cowboy

I think more than anything, we just want Jack and Ennis to be happy, whether that's with someone else or with each other.

tpe · « **Reply #177 on:** Nov 06, 2006, 08:59 AM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 05, 2006, 02:13 AM

No your not nuts. Jack WAS looking dead into Randall's eyes when he asked LaShawn to dance. Some think he's a creepy bastard but I agree He's not so bad. He just tried to come between what I feel is the the perfect match. Any threat to that disturbs me.Ennis and Jack forever!

Jack's look was almost challenging, no? I don't know whether he meant this to seem like it was with Randall that he wanted to dance with, but the look seems to signify something. Was it, in fact, a challenge of some sort. I know that when one looks back at someone eyeing you, it is almost an affirmation of interest. Could this be the case here?

tpe · « **Reply #178 on:** Nov 06, 2006, 09:01 AM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Nov 05, 2006, 06:34 AM

I don't see Randall as someone who tried to come between Ennis and Jack. I would imagine Randall's relationship with Jack was similar to Ennis and Cassie. Neither Randall or Cassie knew of another significant person in Jack and Ennis's life. Cassie knew there was a wall that kept her from getting closer to Ennis. She just had no idea it was Jack. What we don't know is if Randall reached a point where he may have felt something or someone was keeping him from being closer to Jack. Despite the fact that Jack may have decided to move on with Randall, he was not the primary factor in Ennis and Jack's separation. The primary factor was a fear of their relationship imposed by the society under which their relationship began.

Yes, I do think Randall was not the cause of the separation. Did he even know about Ennis? I wonder...

tpe · « **Reply #179 on:** Nov 06, 2006, 09:03 AM »

Quote from: greenfrog on Nov 05, 2006, 09:14 PM

Great post Cowboy

I think more than anything, we just want Jack and Ennis to be happy, whether that's with someone else or with each other.

greenfrog , yes I do feel for both the characters. How much we would have liked to see them finally happy -- but I had always hoped that they would inevitably find happiness only in each other.