Author Topic: Randall (Read 233898 times)

tpe · « **Reply #210 on:** Nov 11, 2006, 04:48 PM »

Good point, CSC. After all, Randall was a college graduate, and he must have moved in a slightly more privileged world than either Ennis or Jack. This could account to his greater self-assurance. Also, your mention of his size is also interesting. He was quite soft-spoken in the scenes, but I got the impression that he would be the dominant partner in the relationship.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #211 on:** Nov 11, 2006, 05:23 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 11, 2006, 04:48 PM

Good point, CSC. After all, Randall was a college graduate, and he must have moved in a slightly more privileged world than either Ennis or Jack. This could account to his greater self-assurance. Also, your mention of his size is also interesting. He was quite soft-spoken in the scenes, but I got the impression that he would be the dominant partner in the relationship.

No doubt! As far as I know, Randall didn't have any temper issues. For all we know Randall had the potential for being a good match for Jack. However, when there is a strong love bond to contend with, a person is blind to the fact that a good match for them may be waiting in the wings. Ennis and Jack had a powerful love, but we all know it wasn't a perfect love. We know enough about their personalities to assume there would be problems outside of what society would inflict.

I can envision Randall being a loving and safe match for Jack. However that might not be enough for Jack. After all he traveled thousands of miles for years just to spend a few days at a time with Ennis. Only a deep, powerful love would motivate someone to settle into that pattern.

greenfrog · « **Reply #212 on:** Nov 11, 2006, 10:12 PM »

Quote from: tpe on Nov 11, 2006, 04:48 PM

Good point, CSC. After all, Randall was a college graduate, and he must have moved in a slightly more privileged world than either Ennis or Jack. This could account to his greater self-assurance. Also, your mention of his size is also interesting. He was quite soft-spoken in the scenes, but I got the impression that he would be the dominant partner in the relationship.

Is Randall identified as a college graduate in the book?

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #213 on:** Nov 11, 2006, 11:30 PM »

It's referenced in the movie by LaShawn: ... but then I met Randall at an Aggie game and he was an animal husbandry major....

aintfoolin · « **Reply #214 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 06:01 AM »

It would be intereting to know what Randall's reaction to Jack's dying was and how it affected him.Maybe we'll get more answers in this new DVD that's comimg out.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #215 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 11:15 AM »

Quote from: LuvJackNasty on Nov 11, 2006, 11:30 PM

It's referenced in the movie by LaShawn: ... but then I met Randall at an Aggie game and he was an animal husbandry major....

Kinky. Fancy being the husband of an animal while being in the army as a major. It must have been LeShawn that drove him to it!

welshwitch · « **Reply #216 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 01:14 PM »

Is "Aggie" Texas A and M? I'm sorry to be so uninformed.

Being a college graduate might make Randall a b iot of an outsider too, like Jack. I bet some of the older generation and the good old boys would have looked on degrees in stock management with grave suspicion. Not what they'd done, and so to be treated with some distrust.

dirtbiker · « **Reply #217 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 01:18 PM »

Aggie is a term used for students who attend A&M

greenfrog · « **Reply #218 on:** Nov 12, 2006, 11:59 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Nov 12, 2006, 06:01 AM

It would be intereting to know what Randall's reaction to Jack's dying was and how it affected him.Maybe we'll get more answers in this new DVD that's comimg out.

I would be interesting to know how it affected him.

tpe · « **Reply #219 on:** Nov 13, 2006, 08:39 AM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Nov 11, 2006, 05:23 PM

Quote from: tpe on Nov 11, 2006, 04:48 PM
Good point, CSC. After all, Randall was a college graduate, and he must have moved in a slightly more privileged world than either Ennis or Jack. This could account to his greater self-assurance. Also, your mention of his size is also interesting. He was quite soft-spoken in the scenes, but I got the impression that he would be the dominant partner in the relationship.

No doubt! As far as I know, Randall didn't have any temper issues. For all we know Randall had the potential for being a good match for Jack. However, when there is a strong love bond to contend with, a person is blind to the fact that a good match for them may be waiting in the wings. Ennis and Jack had a powerful love, but we all know it wasn't a perfect love. We know enough about their personalities to assume there would be problems outside of what society would inflict.

I can envision Randall being a loving and safe match for Jack. However that might not be enough for Jack. After all he traveled thousands of miles for years just to spend a few days at a time with Ennis. Only a deep, powerful love would motivate someone to settle into that pattern.

I had convinced myself in the past that perhaps Jack would have sufficed for Randall, but Jack would only be at rest with Ennis.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #220 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 06:50 AM »

Suffice indeed. CSC is right too . Randall would have been what Jack needed but not what Jack wanted. He was IN love with Ennis. Randall could have been a great partner, better able to give Jack what he needed and in time Jack would have gotten used to having Randall there for him. He already had that somewhat with Lureen though . But it was something about Ennis that attracted Jack and kept him coming back to him. Jack woudl'nt have to "win Randall" he was already there. But Ennis was more of a challenge for Jack and I think Jack wanted the challenge because if he could get Ennis, the prize would be so much sweeter in the end. Jack would've become bored eventually and started regretting that he gave up on the one he truly loved. The comonality and the bond would'nt be there. The memory of Ennis still would'nt allow him to be with Randall in peace. He would always wonder or at least for a long time afterwards. That would'nt be fair to Randall either.There were only two ways for it to end 1. the way it did or, 2. Jack and Ennis getting together again and coming to some kind of understanding and a sweet life together. Ennis would have stepped up to the plate rather than let Randall have Jack IMO.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #221 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 07:03 AM »

I have to believe Ennis would have tried a life together with Jack. It was evident Ennis couldn't handle the thought of Jack having any sexual escapades with other men. I think the thought of Jack having an actual relationship with Randall might have been a huge eye opener for Ennis. Until Jack's father mentioned "this other fella" it probably never occured to Ennis that another man could possibly replace him in Jack's heart.

LuvJackNasty · « **Reply #222 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 08:55 AM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Dec 10, 2006, 07:03 AM

Until Jack's father mentioned "this other fella" it probably never occured to Ennis that another man could possibly replace him in Jack's heart.

That's true CSC- I mean Ennis knew about Mexico etc but when Papa Twist mentioned someone else coming up to the ranch with Jack- that had to kill Ennis esp. considering their last meeting. Papa Twist says how Jack was going to bring Ennis there and then he mentions bringing another fella adding insult to injury. I think that makes Ennis finding the shirts even more powerful- not only did they represent that Jack loved and held him since Brokeback but the fact that they were still there despite Randall told Ennis that it was always him, no matter what. I also think that Ennis would have stepped up to the plate had he known that Jack was moving on.

greenfrog · « **Reply #223 on:** Dec 10, 2006, 08:02 PM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Dec 10, 2006, 07:03 AM

I have to believe Ennis would have tried a life together with Jack. It was evident Ennis couldn't handle the thought of Jack having any sexual escapades with other men. I think the thought of Jack having an actual relationship with Randall might have been a huge eye opener for Ennis. Until Jack's father mentioned "this other fella" it probably never occured to Ennis that another man could possibly replace him in Jack's heart.

Oh boy, here I go again :\'( :\'( :\'(

aintfoolin · « **Reply #224 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 12:50 PM »

This statement by Twist Sr. had to blow Ennis away. Now, not only does he have knowledege of "Mexico" , from Jack but now he has this "other fella "who appeared to be a much more serious presence in what was Jack's life. Jack's words at the last meeting must have really hit home after hearing this, devastating Ennis even more to know that Jack may have had future plans that did'nt include him. If Ennis could have met Randall ,

( whew!) THAT would have been an interesting conversation!

welshwitch · « **Reply #225 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 01:55 PM »

It's John Twist trying to destroy Ennis as he tried to destroy Jack - he's miserable himslef and wants everyone around him to be miserable too - would hate toleave Ennis with any illusions. Of course in the end he's wrong - Ennis is carrying the proof of that.

aintfoolin · « **Reply #226 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 02:17 PM »

Yes, thank goodness for the shirts. As the saying goes "there's no fool like an old fool". The old fool was indeed heartless and miserable I agree. Even in death Jack was able to comfort and reassure Ennis of his eternal love for him."Jack, I swear" indeed. Amazing!

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #227 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 03:13 PM »

Quote from: aintfoolin on Dec 11, 2006, 02:17 PM

Yes, thank goodness for the shirts. As the saying goes "there's no fool like an old fool". The old fool was indeed heartless and miserable I agree. Even in death Jack was able to comfort and reassure Ennis of his eternal love for him."Jack, I swear" indeed. Amazing!

Are you trying to make me cry? :\'(

aintfoolin · « **Reply #228 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 04:03 PM »

%(fellow Brokie

, but Jack was such an

...we'll cry together ok?

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #229 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 04:11 PM »

I guess what it all comes down to is that we needed a longer story. Randall could have been a good match for Jack. Because of how the story ended we will never know. When you factor in how our boys felt for each other, it doesn't look as though Randall stood a real chance with Jack.

(Of course if I were in the story, I would have encouraged Randall to seek comfort in MY arms! )

aintfoolin · « **Reply #230 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 04:27 PM »

And I'm sure that tall softspoken cowboy would have been much obliged no doubt my freind.

to ya.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #231 on:** Dec 11, 2006, 05:31 PM »

Thank you

He would be quite a catch.

Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree · « **Reply #232 on:** Dec 12, 2006, 07:19 AM »

City Slickin' Cowboy

Off topic I know - but it was great to see you in London on the web-cam. I went up to my room to get my cowboy hat as you had yours on, but you had just logged-off!

JFT

tpe · « **Reply #233 on:** Dec 13, 2006, 11:29 AM »

When I watched BBM in London last Saturday, I could not help seeing Randall in a more sympathetic light. I must admit that I though of this very thread during those scenes with LaShawn and Randall. IT is amazing how the discussion here has enriched the expereince...

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #234 on:** Dec 13, 2006, 05:42 PM »

I agree. During my first few viewings I wasn't very aware of Randall and Jack sizing each other up at the table. After all, we know who was doing ALL the talking. I think I was more distracted by LaShawn at first. After this thread began I started to pay more attention to the table scene.

tpe · « **Reply #235 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 01:14 PM »

And I did nore carefully at Randall's face while they were waiting for their wives. It is a mask of beautiful self-control. Jack's face showed more perturbation. But Randall's was inscrutable. Even his voice did not betray anything. For so small a part, I think the acting was magnificent.

City Slickin' Cowboy · « **Reply #236 on:** Dec 14, 2006, 09:49 PM »

I have to agree with your comments tpe. The acting was magnificent and VERY realistic.
When I watch this scene I'm thinking that Jack's silence was an indication that he knew EXACTLY what Randall meant by "do a little fishin', drink a little whiskey, ya know?" It reminded me of similar situations in my past.

welshwitch · « **Reply #237 on:** Dec 15, 2006, 07:05 AM »

And the fact that this was the excuse he and Ennis had used - fishin' buddies. OK for two men to go off and fish and drink - very macho! Though Lureen wasn't impressed - she complained about Jack's going so far to fish and also said disapprovingly that he drank a lot. I wonder whether she's have though Randall preferable to Ennis on the grounds that he was more educated and more closely linked with managing - if there had to be someone male in Jack's life would Randall be more socially acceptable?

aintfoolin · « **Reply #238 on:** Dec 15, 2006, 07:14 AM »

We coud'nt help but see who was doing all the talking CSC !

I, like you never really looked at what else was conspiring between Randall and Jack the first few times watching this scene . LaShawn was so distracting and had my full attention! to her acting credit I guess. There was contarst there with LaShawn's endless chatter and the quiet "eye dance" going on between these two. Randall and Jack were doing some serious eye-contact. When Jack asked LaShawn to dance they were "fixed" on each other. Randall just seemed like a nice guy in a bad marriage just like Jack. I woud have loved to hear some of their converstions,at their meetings but unfortunately that was not to be.

tpe · « **Reply #239 on:** Dec 15, 2006, 08:38 AM »

Quote from: City Slickin' Cowboy on Dec 14, 2006, 09:49 PM

I have to agree with your comments tpe. The acting was magnificent and VERY realistic.
When I watch this scene I'm thinking that Jack's silence was an indication that he knew EXACTLY what Randall meant by "do a little fishin', drink a little whiskey, ya know?" It reminded me of similar situations in my past.

Yes, Jack knew what Randal meant. Was he surprised, or was he expecting this all along? It is a perfect example of coded language, no?

Author Topic: Randall (Read 233898 times)

greenfrog

greenfrog

greenfrog