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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think they ever made love face to face?

« Last post by @loki6783 on Feb 25, 2022, 02:22 AM »

Hi keren

I think that Ennis not looking Jack 's face during the s** is a powerful picture of his suffering.
However in all those years I can see Jack on all four turning his head to stare at him. Jack is curious and so in love.
In that case I can see 3 reactions of Ennis:
1. He presses Jack face into the ground, keep f***ing him.
2. He grabs his hear and kiss him from behind.
3. He just stares back til they both climax.
The 3 is my favorite.
What do you think?
Plus I think that Jack totally watched him while giving or receiving oral s**.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think they ever made love face to face?

« Last post by keren_b on Feb 20, 2022, 01:47 PM »

That's an interesting question, but I'm not sure they did.
If we base the answer on the original short story, there is this part that was written about the dozy embrace by the fire, when Ennis came to Jack and embraced him from behind and said "you're sleeping on your feet like a horse". When Jack remembers it the short story reads:
"Later, that dozy embrace solidified in his memory as the single moment of artless, charmed happiness in their seperate and difficult lives. Nothing marred it, even the knowledge that Ennis would not then embrace him face to face because he did not want to see nor feel that it was Jack he held. And maybe, he thought, they'd never got much farther than that."
If Ennis wasn't even able to embrace Jack face to face because he couldn't accept the fact that he was holding a man, I doubt that he could deal with making love face to face and looking at Jack while he's doing it. That would have been too much for him. And Jack's thoughts that maybe they'd never gotten much farther than that suggest that not much has changed in Ennis's attitude, he could never accept this part of himself.
Another clue is that after he married Alma, Ennis used to roll her over and take her from behind even though she hated it. My interpretation always was that this was how he used to do it with Jack, and after he married Alma and he was missing Jack so much he could do it the same way with her and maybe feel like he was on the mountain again... maybe even pretend that it was Jack and not her. Which is ironic really, because he couldn't face the fact that he was in love with a man, but when he had a wife he didn't want to make love to her face to face either. She wasn't the one that he really wanted in his bed.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Is Jack John Jr.?

« Last post by @loki6783 on Feb 19, 2022, 10:03 AM »

Maybe Jack s second name is Robert given that his son is Bobby. In some country in Europe the second name of the father passed to the son as first name.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Is Jack John Jr.?

« Last post by tpe on Feb 18, 2022, 08:32 PM »

Probably not, but I’ve thought it was an interesting possibility. The name Jack is a very popular name itself, but it’s also a diminutive of John, which is Jack’s father’s name. Kind of a coincidence. Is it possible his mother tried to name him after his father in an attempt to make him bond with him?

It could also be tge name of a grandparent.  But it is possible that he was named after his dad, no?

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think Ennis found Jack pretty? In which scenes it is shown?

« Last post by tpe on Feb 18, 2022, 08:30 PM »

I think today, he would be more accepting and less tortured. But yes, I think he would still keep things internally. Don't know if this is easier on him, but it's a small step towards sone degree of inner peace, perhaps?

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think they ever made love face to face?

« Last post by tpe on Feb 18, 2022, 08:27 PM »

Thanks! That was really a scene where one moment, you were ekated at seeing them free and together, and the next moment alarmed and concerned fir both of them because they were discovered.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Do you think they ever made love face to face?

« Last post by @loki6783 on Feb 18, 2022, 10:15 AM »

I know this question may sound absurd.
I have searched in past discussions but I have never found any of your toughts about it.
I know it seems a (very sexy) stupid detail but for a very long time my opinion was that they were having sex with the receiving one on hands and knees.
After a recent rewatch I have came to the conclusion that, in the time right after scene they are playing on the grass, when Aguirre stares at them...They probably have made love in a missionary position. Because Jack's spreads his legs a little to give Ennis space and Ennis kisses him lowering himself on Jack in such a tender manner...
And that would be the first time they look into each other's eyes, heart to heart, with the sky upon them.
Wow
Just wanted to share this scenario and see what do you think

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think Ennis found Jack pretty? In which scenes it is shown?

« Last post by @loki6783 on Feb 18, 2022, 10:01 AM »

  it's so nice to read your answers! I feel so understood...I hugh you all   


What if we all justify him in the light of the epoch and context of the story?

Do you think Ennis nowadays would be different?
 
I do not think so. I cannot see him waiving a rainobow flag in a gay pride. I think he would be the same d*** Jack and we are used too.
There is a lot of closethed gay men who break the heart of their loved ones, still today. 2022.

And there always was, in every epoch I bet.

Many movies narrate this issue (for example Freier Fall which is interesting, Firebird that totally sucks IMO, God's Own Country that is...a sort of son of BBM, have you seen it? It's kinda cute).

Ok, Ennis was deeply traumatized by his father. That's another justification...But... Traumatized people love quite a lot, actually.

What if it's just that Ennis avoids love because - altough he seems the mature one (accusing Jack of being a childish dreamer) - he is scared of love like a little boy. Love is commitment, is everyday, is fatigue, is facing adversities together... BBM is a paradise where he and Jack can be little boys forever only savoring an ideal heavenly perspective of life. BBM it's a lot like Eden.

It's easy only meeting up a few days, savoring only the love making, the romantic reunions, the moon, the stars. Love is holiday for Ennis, it is an escape from an unsatisfactory life.

But at some point Jack wants to grow up...Wants more...

Maybe macho-s*** epoch is the perfect cover for immature!Ennis.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Did Ennis know how violent John was to Jack, physically and psychologically?

« Last post by tpe on Feb 16, 2022, 12:24 AM »

I think it was in Jack's nature to have shared many things about his childhood with Ennis. After all, he was quite open to his parents and to Ennis about his desire to bring Ennis to his home and help run the ranch. It would have been odd if he didn't give Ennis a background into a world he wanted to bring him in.

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Characters, Quotes & Scenes / Re: Do you think Ennis found Jack pretty? In which scenes it is shown?

« Last post by tpe on Feb 16, 2022, 12:16 AM »

After mire than 15 years, it is so wonderful to see a discussion flowing once again!

I think the key to understanding Ennis (and therefore developing sympathy, if not love) is to recognize the trauma of his childhood, and how this shut him off from expressing his true feelings.