Topic: Randall

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

We never saw them interact face to face.

There was of course the garage scene with Randall and Jack which was present at the initial release but cut subsequently.

With any luck this and the other scenes will be included on the next issue of the DVD in a couple of weeks.

[welshwitch]

But isn't it a neat parallel that Jack and Ennis are side by side up on the mountain in the "I ain't queer" scene and Randall and Jack are side by side not face to face in the scene where Randall propositions Jack.

[BBM Fan]

My personal feeling is: it is a good thing that Ang Lee edited out the supposed scene between Randall, Jack, and the mechanics -- it certainly would have been to much for me to bear.

No wonder Jake Gyllenhaal gave his sad assessment of Jack's faithfulness.  He must have given it in light of certain deleted scenes...

tpe:  I'm several months behind, as you can see.  I didn't see that deleted scene.  Can you explain a little?  What was the "sad assessment"?  Sorry if i'm asking you to repeat - if there are more posts on this, you can just direct me to them.  Thanks,

[BBM Fan]

Sorry Browneyes, I was too sleepy to stay online and Stacp I'm Ok with most of what you say, the "charade" part!

The grieving of Jack is in two steps. Well, it is my point of vue, a little particular maybe, so be patient, it might be long! After the second meeting we see Jack getting better and better when Ennis is getting down. After the divorce it became the opposite. Jack went to Riverton in pure excitation and he made two mistakes:

• First he went because he thought he could be a cure for his friend's pain and he discover he is the cause
• Second he asked his way at ten persons.... his place was "out of nowhere" not in Riverton, see how Ennis see the car that pass away

So there is a break, the dance is over, Jack received his second bad punch. He is not going to Mexico by lust, he is trying to quit Ennis! Jack is an abused child (remember what hapened when he was four years) and like all the abused children he is in the power of the hangman, John, his father. Ennis is the opposite, he is under his power too, but that is the way of life. With Ennis, he is like a child and he could not bear to be forlorn a second time. In Mexico, he try to be a man, he is not having sex or fun (look his face), he take the post of his father and he, himself, will abuse a child, the hustler, a willing one. First step of mourning, he takes a mustache a virile attribute but loose he smile, we shall never see him happy after.

The second step is during the stroll that follow. Jack try again to cure Ennis of his sadness, as always he jokes of himself, of his life in Texas, and it goes. For a moment Ennis opens himself and speak of his fear, that is the only time! But Jack is afraid now and his answer is elusive. He said "maybe you should leave" and he he would have said "Yes, I know that fear, when I met again Aguirre I was so terrified that I ran away down to Texas" Ennis understand that Jack is joking with him and burst out in rage.... "Jack, f** Twist". It all tenderness at the second meeting but now it is a leaving. Jack understand that he will never be anymore the cure for Ennis and that was the core of his desire for him. That is why he is not only grieving, he is dying: Randall is too late, Jack has not enough life in him... "sometimes I miss you so bad I can hardly stand it!" that is not a figure of style, that is pure truth

As I said, it is my point of view, others are possibles!

I missed something - Jack was abused?  At age 4?  Where does that come out?   

[BBM Fan]

Aintfoolin, I wouldn't say Randall's proposition outside on the bench was the first move. In my eyes, the first move comes from Jack, when he asks LaShawn to dance, looking at Randall all the while. I always felt that this was an incredibly clear signal, even a dangerous one. Especially as he goes on looking at Randall (I think I would faint if he looked at me like that) and asks: "You don't mind, do you". If that isn't a complete come on, I don't know what would be. Randall would have had to be made of stone or 150% hetero not to have realised that Jack was interested. Or am I the only one to feel that both Jacks look and his words are double entendres?

monicita

I think Randall made the first move - when he gave Jack that look at the table.  Asking Randall's permission to dance with LaShawn was just a courtesy - anyone would/should ask permission.  But - i need to go do more research - I don't recall a lot of things about this scene, apparently, but I do remember thinking that Randall's look was the first indication that he was interested in Jack - & Jack looked away.  Am I wrong?

I didn't like Randall - mostly because I wanted Jack saved for Ennis.  I also didn't think Randall was particular attractive.  But - I would like to see all the delete scenes be put on the new DVD - it might clear up several things - although I also think it might deminish our feelings for Jack & Ennis as a couple. 

[Edmund-Paul, The Baron of Ree]

I think Randall made the first move - when he gave Jack that look at the table.  Asking Randall's permission to dance with LaShawn was just a courtesy - anyone would/should ask permission.  But - i need to go do more research - I don't recall a lot of things about this scene

This scene is well worth watching again. The scene with Randall and Jack sitting outside is full of tips on how to chat up "stright" men who also dabble on the other side of the fence. It is all double meaning. Everything Randall said could be taken literally (innocent) or between the lines (a clear proposition).

[Twisted]

This scene is well worth watching again. The scene with Randall and Jack sitting outside is full of tips on how to chat up "stright" men who also dabble on the other side of the fence. It is all double meaning. Everything Randall said could be taken literally (innocent) or between the lines (a clear proposition).

So true, and I don't know if there's was allready a discussion on this, but I noticed how Randall was stroking his cigarette also.. I don't know if this means anything ...

[tpe]

But isn't it a neat parallel that Jack and Ennis are side by side up on the mountain in the "I ain't queer" scene and Randall and Jack are side by side not face to face in the scene where Randall propositions Jack.

Yes! A most wonderful parallel!  It was as if this was something they could not talk about while looking at each other's eyes. 

[tpe]

tpe:  I'm several months behind, as you can see.  I didn't see that deleted scene.  Can you explain a little?  What was the "sad assessment"?  Sorry if i'm asking you to repeat - if there are more posts on this, you can just direct me to them.  Thanks,

BBM Fan, sorry, but I only saw pictures of the scene in question.  It would seem that this was right before Jack was murdered, and that Jack and andall had embraced.  The details are sketchy, but I was lead to believe that this had something to do with the attack and subsequent murder of Jack.

I can't find the excerpt of the interview right now, but it was the comment Jake made that Ennis's love was more faithful than Jack's, because Jack gave up in the end...  I will try to find it, but I posted it a number of times in the other threads...

[tpe]

What was the "sad assessment"?  Sorry if i'm asking you to repeat - if there are more posts on this, you can just direct me to them.  Thanks,

I found the excerpt from Jake's interview:


Q: Did Ennis want to go to Mexico?

J.G.: No, in some ways I think maybe Ennis’s love is even stronger in that way because there is a faithfulness to that, and I think you see that happen. I think Jack eventually goes, “I’m going to have to go on with my life. I’m going to have to find someone else and find an intimacy with him and try and figure that out.” And he does. He says at the end… His Dad says he brought some other guy here and they were gonna work on the farm.


The implication is that Jake believed that Jack decided to move on and have a sweet life with Randall.

[tpe]

I missed something - Jack was abused?  At age 4?  Where does that come out?   

OT: In the short story.  The episode when Ennis remembers Jack telling how his father urinated on him as a boy when he was having problems.

[tpe]

So true, and I don't know if there's was allready a discussion on this, but I noticed how Randall was stroking his cigarette also.. I don't know if this means anything ...

I noticed that.  It could be an innocent gesture.  But with Randall and Jack, we can never really tell...

[Twisted]

I noticed that.  It could be an innocent gesture.  But with Randall and Jack, we can never really tell...

True, we really can't. But what if it was a inviting gesture? Randall was speaking most of the time, and gesturing that cabin "vacation" . But that cigarette stroking is kinda disgusting in a other way.. Like he was seducing him...

Randall = Devil.

IMO

[tpe]

True, we really can't. But what if it was a inviting gesture? Randall was speaking most of the time, and gesturing that cabin "vacation" . But that cigarette stroking is kinda disgusting in a other way.. Like he was seducing him...

Randall = Devil.

IMO

Yes, although I don't want to think of Randall as the Devil.  After all, can we blame Randall his attraction?  Like Jack, Randall seemed to know exacly what he wants.

[Twisted]

Yes, although I don't want to think of Randall as the Devil.  After all, can we blame Randall his attraction?  Like Jack, Randall seemed to know exacly what he wants.

But Randall was talking kinda dirty way, almost a straight suggestion. We don't know, what Jack answered then, and how he did, but he was seduced, IMO.

And Randall wasn't that attractive. Jack would have had better.

[tpe]

But Randall was talking kinda dirty way, almost a straight suggestion. We don't know, what Jack answered then, and how he did, but he was seduced, IMO.

And Randall wasn't that attractive. Jack would have had better.

Attraction is in the eye of the beholder, and I am aware of other members expressing their opinion that Randall was attractive.  Perhaps it was also his forwardness that stimulated Jack to probe further.  After all, people many times fall in love with a persona, an attitude, even before they know anything deeper about an individual.  This is why there seem to be many oddly-matched couples everywhere.  Upon digging deeper, we realize some logic behind these curious pairings...

[Twisted]

Attraction is in the eye of the beholder, and I am aware of other members expressing their opinion that Randall was attractive.  Perhaps it was also his forwardness that stimulated Jack to probe further.  After all, people many times fall in love with a persona, an attitude, even before they know anything deeper about an individual.  This is why there seem to be many oddly-matched couples everywhere.  Upon digging deeper, we realize some logic behind these curious pairings...

What's your opinion on Randall? Was he attractive? You are true about that the attraction is in the eyes of the beholder, but maybe Jack didn't think, that Randall was attractive. He just thought that he was a man, who could satisfy his needs, unlike Ennis in the later days..



That look!! Gives me chillies...

[Twisted]

But Jack's look is kinda serching.. And wondering.. Is he, is he not..

[Twisted]

Like a death silence...

[Twisted]

Did he just suggested a "vacation" ?

This looks gives me chillies also..

[tpe]

Did he just suggested a "vacation" ?

This looks gives me chillies also..

Randall had the most exquisite taste...  And the best of luck...

[Twisted]

Randall had the most exquisite taste...  And the best of luck...

I agree with the taste, of course, he got Jack Twist!! But Jack would have had better.. And we don't know, if it was Randall who told about Jack.. We don't know, but that was my suggestion...

[welshwitch]

I was thinking about the "Randall as the devil" comment and trying to see him as Jack's bad angel, and Ennis as his good one. But I don't think it works - Randall is just trying and Jack can simply turn him down. It's all so oblique that if he just said it would be hard to get away Randall wouldn't even have to look offended. And you can;t blame the guy for trying; let's face it, we would.

[aintfoolin]

I agree WW . Randall was just trying to find someone to share his  time and real desires with. He lucked out finding Jack. There was nothing "evil" about it  or him at all. Jack and Lureen happened along after Randall's vehicle broke down. So this was a chance meeting between the two. If I  were Randall and had the choice to spend time with Jack or LaShawn ,the choice becomes even more clearer....Jack!.  Ya can't blame Randall......At least the man could have a two-way conversation with someone.! .  Jack and Randall were flirting at the the table, ( literally right under their wives' noses) but when Randall actually proposed doing something about it , Jack was caught off guard. The reality of Randall's proposal was unexpected.

[tpe]

DId Jack give Randall the impression that he was interested -- else, fishing for such a proposal?  There was a pregnant silence in ther middle of this scene before Jack asked "Do you like working for Roy Taylor?"  It seems like he wouldn't let the conversation die into silence, and Randall was probably encouraged by that.  Still, one can also argue that Jack was just being polite.  Their motives are very hard to read with precision...

[aintfoolin]

Yes, tpe, the uncomfortable silence was very telling. I think Jack was just trying to make conversation, with Randall, but it was a statement instead of a question, I beleive.  ("you'll like working for Roy Taylor" )suggesting that Jack was familiar with this Roy Taylor also. Apparently Randall had just started the foreman job as LaShawn alluded to earlier at the table.  It also shows that up  until that point Randall had  every intention of asking Jack to be with him all along. He just had to find a way to do it delicately. And the way he did it in that quiet suggestive manner?  It was his way of confirming the signals he got from Jack.

[tpe]

Considering Jack and Randall had a very short time alone (while their wives were "powdering" their noses), Randall must have been quite used to this, as he showed no tendency to rush or hurry.  Perhpas he was much more experienced than Jack, I wonder?  Randall, after all, moved in a much more sophisticated world than ack (e.g., university).

[welshwitch]

OT - I love the notion that people at unversity are sophisticated!

But I agree  everything about Randall - the way he behaves, the way he's dressed - suggest someone who is settled and at home with himself - he's evidently taken on LaShawn quite deliberately but you have to admit that she's quite good camouflage for him. People must be so busy not believing their ears when she starts then goes on and on and on that Randall has plenty of time to do his own thing, scoping people out and so on. Not to mention that she's so hard to shut up or break in on that they must be trapped (like the Wedding Guest with the Ancient Mariner).

Some people must also wonder why someone so quiet and apparently together would marry someone so noisy and apparently insecure, thoiugh, surely?

[tpe]

Some people must also wonder why someone so quiet and apparently together would marry someone so noisy and apparently insecure, thoiugh, surely?

In a way, LaShawn was a perfect match for Randall.  She probably never suspected...

[aintfoolin]

Wow! I've thought this many times you two! She made it easy for the both of them to quietly make this arrangement possible for sure. They used her excessive talking to their advantage. The woman never had a clue."Lively  little gal"? Yes  Indeedy!.